Thursday, February 21, 2008

Riots in Belgrade

Caveat alerted me to this one - U.S. embassy in Belgrade set on fire. (CTV)

Now what's that you were saying again, Stephane?


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Check out the related CTV video footage at the right on the CTV site, especially the interview with Dusan Batakovic, Serbian ambassador to Canada.

Interesting comments about whether or not Canada should recognize Kosovo's independence the way the U.S. has done, and the way Stephane Dion has declared we should do.

Related - Socialist Gulag: The more I learn about Kosovo...

CTV - Serbia's ambassador tells Ottawa to exercise caution.

CBC - Body found inside Embassy...

Friday Update - Chretien: Canada in tough spot over Kosovo. (CTV)

11 comments:

Lord Kitchener's Own said...

See, it's funny, not that I disagree with Harper's stance (well, apparent stance, I'm not sure he's actually articulated a stance) that we shouldn't precipitously recognize Kosovo's independence (I actually think that's a prudent enough position, although I personally think we SHOULD recognize their independence) but, for me, seeing Serbian rioters setting fire to the American embassy (with the apparent tacit approval of the Serbian government) made me want to support Kosavar independence MORE, not less.

I saw that scene and was glad to know that the Americans aren't the types to be swayed by rioting and looting, and that they'll stand their ground, and hopefully (after careful and thoughtful reflection, which I don't blame the Harper government for taking the time for) we'll soon be joining them.

All that said, I do think the time is approaching for us to get off the fence. The U.S., France, Turkey, the U.K., Australia, Germany, Italy, Denmark and about a half dozen other countries have officially recognized Kosovo. Belgium, Finland, Austria, Norway, Ireland, Japan and another half dozen have begun the process of formally recognizing Kosovo. The countries that won't recognize them are Russia, most of the former Soviet states, Spain, Argentina, Sri Lanka, Venezuela, and Vietnam. Now, I support recognizing Kosovo's independence on its merits, but even if I didn't, the list of who's on what side would do a lot to convince me of what we should do.

Oh, and interestingly, our lack of a response didn't seem to do all that much good in Belgrade either. The rioters set a car on fire outside the Canadian diplomatic mission too.

I can kinda agree that Dion was perhaps a little to quick to jump on doing the right thing without thinking. I can appreciate Harper's more cautious approach. But as it's clear to me what the right thing here is, I'm not certain how long it'll be before I start seeing prudence and caution as vacillation and lack of leadership.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

LKO - You are free to have your own interpretation, but if Canada recognizes Kosovo after today, I'll be really suprised. Did you see MDL tonight?

Lord Kitchener's Own said...

See, that's interesting too. I'll be really surprised if we DON'T recognize Kosovo eventually (I rather hope it's soon). I guess one of us will be surprised!

The only reason not to (from my point of view) would be the "Quebec thing". But frankly, until the people of Quebec are oppressed for decades, virtual civil war breaks out, and the UN has to send troops to Quebec City to stop Ontarian militias from ethnically cleansing the French population, while American fighters bomb Ontarian positions in Quebec from overhead, I think we can all safely conclude that recognizing Kosovo does NOT set a precedent that remotely touches on the hypothetical scenario of a unilateral declaration of Quebec independence.

Beyond the Quebec angle, to my mind we should do the right thing because it's the right thing, and that's that (though of course, there are those who would disagree with me that giving the Kosavar's their independence is the right thing. For me though, that's where I stand).

Lord Kitchener's Own said...

I know it's juvenile, but I had to smile when I read this in the CNN.com story:

"The only Americans at the embassy during the violence were Marines, who are all said to be accounted for."

Good thing they protested OUTSIDE the embassy and didn't try to storm it, eh?

Note to self: If you're ever in a protest that looks like it's about to storm an American embassy, run away. There's a decent chance all the protesters are going to run into is a platoon of Marines.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

LKO - I'm not going to pretend I know everything about this situation. However, on MDL it was explained that it would be like Jerusalem being taken out of Israel. It's the heart and soul of their country and that's what the Serbians are upset about.

In any case, it's a complex issue, and one that provoke deep feelings on both sides.

Lord Kitchener's Own said...

Of course (just to play Devil's advocate) one could also say that it's like Palestine being given to the Israelis, which is why the Palestinians are so upset (though I wouldn't actually make that comparison myself). Again, I wouldn't actually say this, but you just know someone will make the argument that "we gave the Israelis territories that were holy to another group of people because they had been so horribly oppressed and deserved a home of their own, why not the Kosovars?"

I will say this though. I don't take the feelings of Serbians regarding this land lightly at all, but to me it does seem that at a certain point a nation loses the moral high ground of "this is our holy land", and that point comes just about the time you try to ethnically cleanse the people who are actually living there. If I thought we were wrong to intervene back in the 90's to save the Kosovars I'd probably think differently, but I think we were right, and I think the large majority of our allies who have recognized an independent Kosovo are right now.

Lord Kitchener's Own said...

I presume the powers that be at Wikipedia are keeping an eye on this page and that it's reasonably accurate, so I thought I'd share.

The page is tracking international reaction to the declaration, and even has a cool map (dark blue have recognized, light blue will recognize, dark orange have stated they will not recognize, light orange have expressed concern over unilateral declarations or called for further negotiations).

With all my concerns about Russia lately (anyone see that "Inside Russia" doc on BBC World? SCARY) it's funny how quickly it brought to my mind a NATO/Warsaw Pact Cold War map (with the obvious exception of Spain of course).

Joanne (True Blue) said...

I don't take the feelings of Serbians regarding this land lightly at all, but to me it does seem that at a certain point a nation loses the moral high ground of "this is our holy land", and that point comes just about the time you try to ethnically cleanse the people who are actually living there.

They're discussing all that just now on Michael Coren. All parties are agreeing that it's a delicate issue.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

LKO - That Wikipedia site & map is really cool for sure. Thanks for pointing it out. Quite amazing how they keep up on things.

Lord Kitchener's Own said...

Yeah, it's crazy isn't it. Any big event like this and BOOM, all you need to know in a nice neat package (as long as you take it with a grain of salt, but frankly, it's all usually pretty accurate).

Wikipedia certainly has its uses!

I also like to think of it not as "amazing how they keep up with things" but as "amazing how WE keep up with things". After all, it's mostly just regular people making these pages and updating them. As I said, one needs to have a critical eye of course, but it's amazing how much the sum can be greater...

Joanne (True Blue) said...

I also like to think of it not as "amazing how they keep up with things" but as "amazing how WE keep up with things". After all, it's mostly just regular people making these pages and updating them.

Yeah, good point. I thought about that after I had made that comment. It's quite a democratic process.