Friday, February 29, 2008

More puzzling pieces

Check this out. And this.



* * * *
Saturday Update: Lots of press on this controversy. I'll give you the highlights.

Globe - Liberals float theory on Cadman compensation.

CBC - Daughter urges Dona Cadman to run as independent.

Jodi Cadman asks the question that is on everyone's mind:
...Jodi Cadman told CBC News she talked to her mother by telephone on Friday and asked, "Why are you running for the Conservative Party if you are accusing them of this?

"If it was such an indecent proposal, how are you in good conscience running for that particular party?"

I hear Jodi in an interview yesterday saying that she only heard of the fact that the "bribe" was included in the book a couple of days ago. I wonder why she didn't see the manuscript ahead of time and yet Paul Martin had it for a year? Or was that portion left out of manuscripts sent out for review?


Star- Cadman affair sparks election threat.


Star - Cadman's daughter wanted to go public:

Jodi Cadman said her mother was surprised at the furor raised by her revelations.

"She's probably a bit more naive than I am." As for why her father didn't go public about the issue, Cadman said he was tired and knew the controversy that would result.

Star - Terminally ill `uninsurable' for $1 million, experts say.


And here's the can of worms that Dona Cadman likely didn't count on opening - Chuck Cadman's ethics.

I wonder if Chuck had wanted this story to come out posthumously. Somehow I can't imagine it.

A good man's legacy and reputation is now being dragged through the mud and he's not here to defend it.

It's a shame.

* * * *
Sunday Update: Charles Adler: Questions that need to be asked about Cadmanscam - Post.


50 comments:

Jeff Davidson said...

it must be difficult for desperate partisans to accept that perhaps this whole thing went down exactly as cadman's family said it did.

kaye and levant aren't adding puzzling pieces. they're simply trying to shift focus.

was cadman lying to his wife and daughter? or instead, are cadman's wife and daughter lying to us?

no matter how you slice it, the CPC and our prime minister are calling the cadman family liars.

like most canadians, i'm inclined to believe chuck's wife and daughter. this one ain't going away.

it looks like the real lemmings are the conservative faithful who are to frightened to believe that their flabby messiah is capable of
such high treason.

it's a sad day for all canadians. our PM and his party are more corrupt and morally bankrupt than we ever imagined.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Jeff, all I'm saying is that a good man's reputation is being trashed by various vested interests. It's so sad.

Crazymamma said...

get a grip Jeff dear,

You obviously didn't hold real Liberal corruption against them. Just how long did it take you to get over Ad-scam et al? No pit or rock is too low for the Liberals to crawl under in order to keep their pointless non-opposition jobs. Don't be mad at us. Dion and company could have gotten rid of us if they had any platform or principles.

Dragging the good name of a dead man thru the mud? How very Liberal of you.

But then who would expect them to volunteer to walk away from their entitlements.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Everyone is going to wear this before it's over. Everyone.

JR said...

Good pieces by Kay and Levant. This has to be the most annoyingly dumb 'scandal' in history.

But it must be fun for dopey (Liberal) partisans like Jeff to get carried away by their fantasies.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

No good will come out of this. Not for the Liberals; obviously not for the conservatives; not for the family and not for Chuck's memory.

hunter said...

That's the sad truth Joanne, no-one looks good on this one.

wilson said...

So jeff, if this is the scandal of the century, why did Liberals know for 12 months and didn't report it to the RCMP?

Isn't there a law against withholding evidence of a crime?

Shouldn't martin have rushed to the authorites with his copy of the book, immediately?

Peter said...

The books author is laughing all the way to the bank!

Dr. Johnson said...

Breaking!!

Liberal sources are disclosing that there were additional elements to the Cadman bribe!

In addition to offering a patient in the final stages of terminal cancer a one million dollar insurance policy, Harper is reported to have offered Cadman a unicorn, and a magical forest in which to ride his new beast.

Although experts unanimously agree that unicorns, magical forests, and million dollar insurance policies for terminal cancer patients, don't actually exist, Liberal insiders are firm with their allegations.

Said one source close to Dion:

"Look, if Harper can manage to hold onto power for over two years, pass three budgets, a crime bill and maintain his Afghan position, with three left leaning parties holding more seats than the CPC, he can certainly produce unicorns, and insurance policies for dying patients."

Meanwhile, the Globe and Mail is sending its crack team to investigate the obviously legitimate concerns of Conservative unicorn production. Stay tuned.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

This is turning into a circus. Something tells me Dona Cadman didn't see this coming.

Anonymous said...

its a he said she said they said...but I say , redemption comes at a cost,a cost none of the parties involved are even considering paying . its like a really really bad movie you have forced yourself into watching in its entirety ...Oh good there is popcorn ....katou

Anonymous said...

Just wondering if offering an inducement to vote a certain way counts if the person wanted to vote that way anyway. If what the Cadman family says is true (of course no insurance policy possible), weren't the Conservatives trying to help the family out in a bad situation?

The Liberals of course were bribing Belinda with a cabinet post, but that doesn't count as a bribe in parliamentary tradition.

What I don't get is that Cadman was going on about polling his riding over and over to see which way to vote.

Ruth said...

What I don't get is why Dona Cadman was ever running against her best friend in that riding. Looks to me like she took the Conservative nomination so no one else could and she would let her good friend win again.
Maybe now the Conservatives can get another person nominated in time for an election.

Alberta Girl said...

"The Liberals of course were bribing Belinda with a cabinet post, but that doesn't count as a bribe in parliamentary tradition."

Don;t forget Tim Murphy on tape telling Gewal how to defect so as not to arouse suspicion. We all know how that turned out.

Platty said...

From the Gazette


This affair needs a police investigation. Trying to bribe an MP is an indictable offence. If police find evidence of that, charges should be laid, and pursued vigorously. But if there's no evidence ... well, even Conservatives are innocent until proven guilty.

Which, of course, is the worst thing about this whole affair.

Political parties, all political parties, are so quick to jump up and scream at the very notion of a scandal, without letting something as mundane as the facts get in their way.


==

paulsstuff said...

Allow me to throw another twist in.

"The basic life insurance policy for MPs, paid for by the government, is relatively modest, worth twice their last full year's salary — starting around $300,000"

Cadman was appointed by Paul Martin to do work on a committee dealing with Cadman's bill regarding youth crime. Prior to the vote, Cadman had trouble travelling to Ottawa due to his health woes. Serving on this committee would have given him an increase in yearly salary, which could have resulted in a higher payout for his family.

Kind of disgusting to bring it up, but hey, with Liberal's using a deceased mans name to further their own election hopes, why not. I guess it never dawned on the media to ask why Liberal's never sent this supposed information to the RCMP within days, like they claim to have done with Schreiber's letter to Harper.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Paul, that certainly is an interesting wrinkle, and one that I had never considered before.

I know that getting tough on crime was a topic very near and dear to Chuck's heart, but I never thought of your take on it before.

When exactly was that appointment?

Gayle said...

This, from Jonathon Kay:

"Does Flanagan sound like the sort of guy who would risk going to jail — for up to five years — for committing the alleged act?"

Just want to point out that many people said that about Conrad Black...

I am not sure why you are accusing the liberals of trashing Cadman. They have been pretty consistently describing him as a man of principle and integrity. The facts back that up:

Duffy alleges that Cadman needed to keep his pension and therefore he would not defeat the government. Last night Duffy made the disgusting suggestion that if the million dollar offer had been made, Cadman would have taken it. In short, Duffy suggested Cadman would have broken the law and in the process, abandon all his principles, for this money. Dominic Leblanc pointed this out to Duffy (who looked suitably ashamed of himself), by pointing out that Cadman was an honourable man, and as such, would never accept a bribe.

The people trashing the Cadmans are the conservatives, because they must say either Cadman lied to his family, or his family is lying to the media.

What I think is more likely is that Cadman told the truth to his family (why would he lie about this?), but kept that truth out of the media out of loyalty to the conservatives, whom he clearly saw as the better party to govern Canada. He may not have liked what the cons did here, but he definately preferred them over the liberals.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

He may not have liked what the cons did here, but he definately preferred them over the liberals.

Gayle, then why have this come out now? You obviously don't think Chuck would have wanted it to.

Gayle said...

I am sure he didn't want it to, but then, he is not the guy who released it. I am just as sure that when his wife gave the interview to the authour she was not thinking about the consequences. Perhaps she told him this before she decided to run for the cons. Perhaps it just came out during the course of the conversation. Perhaps she simply believes the truth should be told, regardless of the consequences to the conservatives.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Perhaps she told him this before she decided to run for the cons.

She said as much.

Well, Gayle, your theory may prove to be correct. If it is, then there will be some serious repercussions.

Anonymous said...

Warren Kinsella's got an interesting take on this on his blog..he aint buying this BS either.

I'm putting more stock in what uncle Warren says than I am of the Liberal lemmingites lurking the blogs, you?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Warren Kinsella's got an interesting take on this on his blog..he aint buying this BS either.

Interesting. Very interesting indeed.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

And here's Peter MacKay already positioning himself for a leadership coup.

Ruth said...

Warren has a better take on this than Garth Turner, who never has a good thing to say about anybody.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Well, Garth is looking for any excuse for an election!

Ruth said...

I hope the good people in Halton can give him a retirement package.

Gabby in QC said...

In a G&M article, Jodi Cadman’s husband is quoted as saying
http://tinyurl.com/2juqrv
«Mr. Harper "is calling all of us liars," Mr. Miller said. "If that's what they are going to say, that's fine. Myself and my wife and my mother-in-law, we know the truth. We know what Chuck told us."»

If Mr. Miller can arrive at the conclusion that PM Harper is calling all of them liars, what conclusion should one draw from the fact that Mr. Cadman himself in some interviews said no deals were offered?

Also, I find it strange that then opposition leader Harper, who is usually depicted by the MSM as secretive and uncooperative with the press, should be accosted by an obscure reporter in the Cadman driveway when he was on a private courtesy call after Mr. Cadman’s death.

How did Tom Zytaruk know that Mr. Harper would be there at the Cadman’s?

Möbius said...

It's a political sickness, that carries over from party to party. Grewal (read the transcripts of Dosanjh and Murphy, to Grewal, offering "plausible deniability"), Martin/Stronach (obviously she's cabinet material), and Cadman (not sure what was offered, at this point). This is a stain on all parties that votes can be bought and sold so cheaply.

Stronach & Martin set the bar so low, I simply don't believe that the CPC offered anything quite like what has been reported. Any Liberal who still supported the party after that is a total hypocrite.

In none of these cases, are the concerns of the Canadian voter addressed. Not one of them gives a sh*t about governing this country, only about winning.

Möbius said...

Well, Garth is looking for any excuse for an election!

Garth is simply doing what he's been told. If Dion were to say it, he would be accused of flip-floppin yet again. GT is simply the sacrificial goat sent out to muddy the waters.

Möbius said...

The Libs are really missing an opportunity by obsessing over Chuckgate, when the real issue of control of the cash going to support Canadian films and TV is passing them by.

When governments decide to legislate "art" and support depictions of good Christian morality, it's time to worry.

I would prefer that we don't give a cent of government money to support so-called "art", but if we do, do we want government bureaucrats to decide what has merit?

frmgrl said...

You know there are reputations being ruined by this without find out all the facts first before spewing unproven allegations and innuendo. I blame mainly the MSM and the Liberals for that. I mean do they not think to do their homework first and get the real facts before spouting off. Look what happened to James Moore a few weeks ago when an NDP member accused him of something that in the end was totally innocent.
What is wrong with the journalists in this country? They have resorted to tabloid journalism that's why I totally detest reading a paper or watching the news.

maryT said...

What would the reaction of the liberals and media be if PMSH went to the GG and said, The opposition tried to get something on Brian, and a liberal MP said in the HofC he should be hung.
They are now smearing a dead man.
It is obvious that we can't govern for another 18 mos waiting for the next attempt to smear us. Therefore, I request you dissolve this parliament and call an election.
He should not give any warning to anyone but his caucus, just finish up a day and go see the GG.
The majority of canadians would agree with him, this sham of an opposition has gone on long enough.
Let the people decide who is honest and who is corrupt.
And, he can blame the liberals for costing the taxpayer 350 million dollars. Dion will discover that yes, canadians do want an election.
I think March 15 would be a good day, but maybe March 18 would be better to send a message.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Therefore, I request you dissolve this parliament and call an election.
He should not give any warning to anyone but his caucus, just finish up a day and go see the GG.
The majority of canadians would agree with him, this sham of an opposition has gone on long enough.


Mary T, it would be pretty difficult for Harper to do so, since he brought in the four year terms, but I suppose if he could think of a way to do it when the Senate wasn't cooperating then who knows?

My feeling is that the budget will be passed, the by-elections will be held, and if the Cadman controversy isn't resolved by the end of March my guess is we'll be into an election.

maryT said...

I agree, we will be in an election, but I would rather we call it than the liberals.
I know he has the 4 year fixed date, but could anyone blame him for saying enough is enough. Another 18 mos of smears, delays, name calling, threats to hang Brian and total chaos is not good for the country. He could still blame it on the liberals.
Another female liberal candidate, in BC, has withdrawn as a candidate. How long can Dion keep everyone on pins and needles, ready to campaign if he ever makes up his mind.
I wish the CWB question was -if this motion fails, we will introduce legislation to include all farmers of all provinces to be covered by the CWB. Listen to the cries then. I don't think voters realize this act only covers farmers in the west.
Well, I voted in the advance poll today. Will scrutineer Monday.

Joe said...

Actually the ones who come out the worse for this "scandle" are the Cadmans. Chuck looks less noble and more base than my memory of him. Mother and daughter look money grubbing trying to sell a book based on the last few days of Chuck's life. The widow Cadman looks like someone who is entirely politically naive or else a plant trying to keep the party she is running for out of office.

maryT said...

Perhaps the liberals trying to run a smear campaing on this should read another new book just out or about to be published. Nationalnewswatch has the story=
WOMEN ARE BETTER LIARS. Timely I think.

Anonymous said...

joe...I was thinking that about Mrs. Cadman too. She is a friend of Penny Priddy, the NDP form that riding. Makes you wonder.
Re Chuck...a lot has been hashed over about his last days I cannot imagine the pain of losing a child at the hands of murdering thugs. I can see how the energy put in to the changing the YOA may have helped him with his grief. He must have reached a point in his life when he realised all the energy that he put in to 'change' was for not, and all he could do was look after his suviving family. I don't believe the CPC offered a bribe,however I do believe his personal financial status was discussed at the 'meeting'.It would be very natural for a man to be concerned about his family.It's just too bad that the author and others are making out to be bribery.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

joe...I was thinking that about Mrs. Cadman too. She is a friend of Penny Priddy, the NDP form that riding. Makes you wonder.

That's another angle I hadn't thought of.




Interesting that on CTV's QP today, Jodi Cadman was talking about how she wouldn't have mentioned the alleged bribe, unlike her mother. Chuck had supposedly asked Jodi to keep it between the two of them.
She speculated that perhaps Dona had mentioned it early on with the author. She speculated that perhaps her mother felt the issue was just too important to 'sweep under the rug'.

So if this bribe attempt is true, then it is a huge criminal offense, and all these people were hanging onto it for all this time including Paul Martin who had the manuscript for over a year?

Why wouldn't he have immediately taken it to the RCMP???????

Joe said...

So if this bribe attempt is true, then it is a huge criminal offense.

Actually no there was no crime involved unless it was an inducement to get a vote changed. Offering inducements to join or switch caucus' is a long standing tradition and distasteful tho it be it is not in anyway illegal.

paulsstuff said...

"Why wouldn't he have immediately taken it to the RCMP???????"

Well, he was known as MR. Dithers. My take on the whole thing is that Cadman was probably upset the Conservatives wanted him to risk his MP insurance by forcing an election with his deciding vote. Harper has repeatedly said in the past that he was offered the Conservative party seat unchallenged in the next election, and all those costs that would normally be covered by the party in an election. That is kind of sleazy, yet legal in the Stronach way.

Cadman may have very well mentioned a million dollar offer, but as someone who lost his father to cancer, I can tell you between the medication and pain my dad said some pretty bizarre things, including things that happened earlier life that had somehow changed in his mind.

It might be proper to point out two people know what was offered, Mr. Finley and Mr. Flanagan. I would imagine they welcome the opportunity to tell the proper authorities what actually transpired.

As for those taking Cadman's family's word as gospel, then you should also apply the same principle to this man's testimony as well:

QUEBEC CITY - Charles (Chuck) Guite says he was just following orders when he doled out millions of taxpayers' dollars to ad agencies in return for little or no work on the sponsorship program. Guite lays the blame for the scandal directly on his higher-ups -- former minister of public works Alfonso Gagliano and former prime minister Jean Chretien.

And on a side note, I have been turned down for life insurance, including life insurance on a $10,000 line of credit, for having high cholesterol. The idea that someone with stage 4 cancer could get $1 million in life insurance is utter fantasy.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Actually no there was no crime involved unless it was an inducement to get a vote changed. Offering inducements to join or switch caucus' is a long standing tradition and distasteful tho it be it is not in anyway illegal.

Excellent point. Thanks for making that distinction, Joe.

Gabby in QC said...

Talking about liars and lying ...

http://www.theguardian.pe.ca/index.cfm?sid=113112&sc=98
«“Get tough on crime, bring forth Brian Mulroney!’’ [Lib. MP Shawn] Murphy is heard saying in the House of Commons during a highly-charged debate on the passage of the Conservative government’s new crime bill.

“Hang him high, hang Mulroney! Let’s get this Mulroney before the courts as soon as possible and hang him high! We gotta get Mulroney, put a noose on his head, put a noose on his head. Get tough on crime.’’

The exchange was between Murphy and Ed Fast, the Conservative MP from Abbotsford, B.C. ...

In a statement issued to The Guardian Friday, Murphy said he is going to apologize.

“There was some overzealous heckling going on in question period (Thursday) afternoon — way too much actually — mainly because of the Cadman affair and the crime bill,’’ said Murphy.»

Anyone who watches QP on a regular basis would know that:
1. the "exchange" did NOT take place during a debate, but rather during Members' Statements
2. the Members' Statements segment takes place BEFORE the oral questions, so the "Cadman affair" that Murphy references had NOT been brought up yet
3. MP Murphy is lying about WHY his “overzealous heckling” took place
4. the reporter didn't check his facts about WHEN the incident took place AND he should have known that there was no longer any debate about the crime bill, since it received Royal Assent on that same day (Feb. 28)

And as far as the Cadman Affair is concerned, a conservative on the L. Ian Macdonald "Insiders" radio show today said that Doug Finley and Tom Flanagan met with Cadman in Ottawa.
So who were the two "Conservatives" who supposedly met with Cadman in his BC office?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Cadman may have very well mentioned a million dollar offer, but as someone who lost his father to cancer, I can tell you between the medication and pain my dad said some pretty bizarre things, including things that happened earlier life that had somehow changed in his mind.

I'm very sorry to hear that about your father, Paul. That must have been such a difficult time.

Mike Duffy made a similar suggestion to Jodi Cadman, and has been pilloried for it on left-leaning blogs. But she had suggested it was a fair question, but that he had said the same thing to three different people on three different occasions. You'd almost need an oncologist to testify as to the chances of a person in such a state having a persistently unreliable recollection of an event. Perhaps Chuck misunderstood the intention of what was offered. Who knows?

I think there should be an inquiry though, or else this will always be out there. It needs to get resolved.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

So who were the two "Conservatives" who supposedly met with Cadman in his BC office?

Gabby, where did you hear that it was his BC office?

maryT said...

There are all kinds of stories re the PM offered Cadman money. Who would that PM be, at the time. Paul Martin.
Anything to confuse voters.
If I thought for one minute, that the leader of my party, who was opposition leader at the time, would waste 1 million dollars to force an election that he might not win, I would never give them another dollar.
To tell Cadman that as a member of the opposition he would gain money for office expenses, research, staff which as an independant he did not have, that I could understand. In addition to offer him an uncontested nomination and help with election expenses, that is probably what happened.
Knowing that the math ability of graduates is next to nil, someone probably misplaced a decimal point to come up with 1 million dollars.
Anyone out there got the poll numbers for that period of time when this vote took place.
Any bets that Mrs Cadman will be parachuted into the BC riding that just became vacant because a female liberal quit.
Unfortunately for her she has lost the sympathy vote she was counting on to get elected. Some friend she is, she supported the NDP lady last time, because they are friends.

Joe said...

I think there should be an inquiry though, or else this will always be out there. It needs to get resolved.

Oh and Gomery resolved????

I have less faith in inquiries than I do in the breathless "studies show" trumpeted every night on the local news.

If anything call in the QPP, OPP or better yet Scotland Yard to investigate and go with their findings. Past dealings by the Liberals with the RCMP cast doubt on the RCMP's ability to impartially investigate the latest dump at a one hole outhouse.

Gabby in QC said...

"Gabby, where did you hear that it was his BC office?"

Joanne, I've been searching to find a reference and came up blank.

However, if memory serves, in May 2005 Chuck Cadman returned to his riding to gauge his constituents' views.

I remember on the day of the vote (May 19) he was shown returning to Parliament with a retinue of reporters asking him how he would be voting.

Perhaps, having read reports of this "scandal" that his wife and his administrative assistant were not in the office when the Conservative reps came to make an offer, I put two and two together ... and came up with a 5.

I assumed "his office" referred to his BC office, since there had been reports he wanted to be at home because of his illness and that it would be an effort for him to return to Ottawa for the vote.

Shame on me for jumping to conclusions.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Shame on me for jumping to conclusions.

Hey, that's o.k. There are so many stories and allegations floating around that it's hard to separate the fact from the fiction. However, it's possible that "office" could refer to Ottawa. I'm just speculating.

On the other hand, there has already been one inaccuracy stated in the book regarding Cadman's assistant, and whether or not he was actually in the room at the time of the alleged 'bribe'. So what other information is in question?