On the question of a leak, Gerry Nicholls has an op-ed in the Post - Revenge of the Elections Canada Bureaucrats. This is one scary horror story! Every Canadian should be concerned. It questions the impartiality of EC.
Finally, please focus your attention on the hyperbole in this editorial by The Ottawa Citizen's Susan Riley - New cast, same script:
...As for the latest contretemps -- RCMP raids this week on Conservative headquarters over alleged campaign financing irregularities -- Harper may be saved this time by complexity. Conservatives are accused by critics of getting around spending limits on national campaigns by filtering at least $1 million through local riding associations. The opposition says this amounts to money-laundering. Conservatives say it is perfectly legal and that Liberal MPs do the same thing. "Why are (only) Conservatives not allowed to talk about their national leader and national policies in an election," House Leader Peter Van Loan complained yesterday, a textbook example of the avowedly transparent Harper government's sophistry.
Adding confusion, we don't know yet if the RCMP is chasing this so-called "in-and-out" accounting trick, or some other misdeed. In any event, the details may be lost in Conservative side attacks on Liberals, the CBC, the RCMP, and anyone else who questions. This may be good for the Tories, but it is bad for politics. Rather than turning to an alternative party, what if more voters -- finding none -- turn off politics altogether?
Note the use of RCMP raid and RCMP chasing...
Now if you recall, it was the RCMP themselves who said they were there to merely provide assistance (and possibly even oversee the execution of the warrant so that EC didn't overstep their boundaries):
RCMP commissioner Bill Elliott said the RCMP has a "longstanding memorandum of understanding" to assist Elections Canada, and insisted his officers were simply complying with a request.
This is NOT an RCMP raid, nor is it an RCMP investigation!!!
And yet Ms. Riley has the gall to lecture us on ethics.
* * * *
This is puzzling too - Seized papers linked to lawsuit by Tonda MacCharles (H/T National Newswatch):
So, in spite of the Liberal party's vehement denial that this had nothing to do with the CPC court challenge against EC, which coincidentally they were due to deal with the very day after the "raid", we find out that some of the material seized did in fact have to due with that case. The Liberals kept saying they were two different issues.
Can someone please explain to me how a one party involved in a legal suit could go into the premises of the other and take away their documents relating to the court action?
Maybe I'm missing something here.
This is puzzling too - Seized papers linked to lawsuit by Tonda MacCharles (H/T National Newswatch):
After a two-day search of files and electronic databases at Conservative party headquarters, Elections Canada seized material related to the party's "media advertising" in the last election.
At least some of the material that was carted or wheeled out Tuesday and Wednesday by RCMP officers assisting Elections Canada investigators was the basis for the party's planned questioning of elections officials in the lawsuit challenging their interpretation of campaign financing rules.
Included among papers and emails seized or downloaded were all of the party's documents, including a series of indexed binders of Elections Canada records, related to the Conservatives' challenge in Federal Court of the agency's decision to disallow rebate claims involving some local campaign advertising expenses in the 2006 election, according to a document obtained by the Star...
So, in spite of the Liberal party's vehement denial that this had nothing to do with the CPC court challenge against EC, which coincidentally they were due to deal with the very day after the "raid", we find out that some of the material seized did in fact have to due with that case. The Liberals kept saying they were two different issues.
Can someone please explain to me how a one party involved in a legal suit could go into the premises of the other and take away their documents relating to the court action?
Maybe I'm missing something here.
76 comments:
Flood Ms. Riley with e-mails and ask for a correction. I'm tired of the lies they spread.
message to all conservatives stop apologizing
you are doing a top notch job
let the chips fall where they may
Best Prime Minister Rt. Hon Stephen Harper
A true Straight Arrow
you are getting the job done
keep up the good work
fh
Susan Riley has a pathological and irrational hatred of the conservatives. You'll never get anything remotely accurate or balanced out of her. And yet, she calls herself a journalist....
Since I can't post this over at Steve's for some reason and since you have raised the same topic, I will post it here.
"I have a feeling the National Press Gallery is with holding a lot of information on this incident. "
Touche Fay! I believe they know alot more about things - watching Laghi yesterday on Duff, he stumbled on some words, backtracking a bit to correct himself when he said that we....um I don't know who called the media.
He also stated something that seemed to surprise Mike Duffy - that it is EC that isrefusing to release the search warrant. The government has been calling for it to be released. So how come the stories don't bring this out?? They let old bull dog Goodale tear into James Moore about where Stephen Harper was and how come they won't let the Liberals see the search warrant, yet they leave all this to the readers/listeners imagination to believe that it is the Tories that are holding things back.
This is war- the beauracrats in Ottawa have been undermining the Conservatives since they took power. The Liberals and the old P'C'ers are p-od that this upstart party from the west dared to come in and upset the apple cart that they had so carefully put in place.
Thankfully we have blogs like this one to find out the truth behind the lies and expose it - it does work - we have seen it with every other pseudo scandal they have tried to use.
Keep up the good work and if there is anything those of us who read and give our two cents worth can do, other than spread the other side to the masses, please let us all know.
"Can someone please explain to me how a one party involved in a legal suit could go into the premises of the other and take away their documents relating to the court action?"
They can do it because they found a liberal friendly judge to give them a search warrant based on a suspicion - after all isn't that really all you need for a search warrant (cue Gayle....) the suspicion that something might be going on?
They can do it because the stink around the visual of the RCMP accompanying EC will leave the impression in Canadians minds that the Tories are corrupt.
Which is EXACTLY what EC, the Liberals, the MSM, the NDP and the Bloc (who are reaping the benefits of this visual) have been waiting for. They can't seem to stand the fact that S.H. said he was going to run a clean government so they have invented scandals and stories to try to knock them off their "pedestal". How many times have we heard an opposition member or someone in the MSM making statements to the effect that "they said they were going to be clean and now this......"
Over and Over and OVer -- it is like revenge of the popular girls when a nerdy girl transforms over the summer and takes all the boys attention away from them.
over to you Gayle....
I thought James Moore did very well on MDL. Old Rightuous Ralph was turned to James and shaking his finger in James Moores face. Ralph did not even look at the camera.
I am very tired of Rightuous Ralph and ashamed that he is a western Canadian.
Keep up the good work James Moore!!You have a lot of class and are demonstrating maturity beyond your years.
I took Ruth's piece of advice. I would recommend others do the same. Flooding the Ottawa Citizen's inbox with letters might be hard to ignore.
Here's what I wrote to them:
"Susan Riley has long played fast and loose with the facts in her writing. Her latest article ("New cast, same script") once again enforces this notion talking about "RCMP raids this week on Conservative headquarters".
The RCMP made no raids. Commissioner of elections William Corbett requested the assistance of the RCMP to execute Elections Canada's own search warrant. This has been confirmed both by Elections Canada spokesperson John Enright and by RCMP commissioner Bill Elliott. The warrant was not requested of the Toronto court by the RCMP and not obtained from the court by the RCMP. And the RCMP were not the ones who served the warrant to the Conservative Party HQ. It was Elections Canada who did all of these things. Thus, for anyone who actually takes the time to put these facts together, clearly it could not have possibly been an RCMP "raid".
It is clear that either Ms. Riley was purposefully and maliciously implying some type of criminal investigation by characterizing this as an RCMP policing raid, or she simply did not know what she was talking about when she wrote her articles. My own experience in reading Ms. Riley's articles leads me to think it was likely both. And while I understand it must be difficult for Ms. Riley to actually check facts and do research for her regular opinion pieces -- let's not confuse them with actual news articles as they are closer to Blog entries -- but with the Ottawa Citizen supposedly being a news source, the least your paper can do is actually know whether what you are printing is correct or not. After all, if you are paying her to write, don't you think you should at least get articles that contain more than just fast and loose talk?
Every time I see articles like this printed in major newspapers, I understand more and more why people are rejecting print media altogether and going to the internet for their news. After all, why pay for Blog entries like Ms. Riley's when you can get it for free?"
Even better, Joanne:
"On Tuesday, Elections Canada spokesperson John Enright said the action was not related to the lawsuit."
--Toronto Star, today
Elections Canada has been caught fibbing to the media. The media really, really hate that. I'd say Elections Canada is in for the latex-glove treatment.
Our PM is doing a great job at focusing on governing our country and he has to deal with arrogant Libs, whiney NDP, misleading media and also beaurocrats with an agenda.
You are right Jo Anne...Ottawa stinks.
Alberta Girl asks what we can do. The best thing we could do is somehow get the message to the pollsters that females will vote for Stephan Harper.
Let's see how much media attention this gets:
RCMP to charge Corbeil in sponsorship scandal
Updated Fri. Apr. 18 2008 10:22 AM ET
Brian Daly, montreal.ctv.ca
MONTREAL -- For the first time, the RCMP is set to charge a former federal Liberal official in the sponsorship scandal that helped to bring down Paul Martin's Liberal government.
The Mounties have scheduled a news conference for 11 a.m. to announce charges against Benoit Corbeil, who ran the Liberal party's Quebec wing from 1999 to 2001.
Corbeil is one of a handful of top Quebec Liberals who ad executive Jean Brault says browbeat him for cash that was then funnelled to the party in the late 1990s and early 2000s.
If what Tonda says is true, this sounds like a preemptive strike on the part of EC. They've abused their powers in order to discover the CPC case against them. They need to open up the warrant to satisfy Canadians that the complaint justifies seizing these documents, otherwise this just looks like corruption on the part of the EC with indirect complicity of the Liberals.
potato
Here you go AG:
http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/1984/1984canlii33/1984canlii33.html
In Hunter v. Southam, the SCC said the following about warrants (this is a summary from the case - if the link does not work go to www.canlii.org and look up Hunter Southam):
"First, for the authorization procedure to be meaningful, it is necessary for the person authorizing the search to be able to assess the conflicting interests of the state and the individual in an entirely neutral and impartial manner. This means that while the person considering the prior authorization need not be a judge, he must nevertheless, at a minimum, be capable of acting judicially. Inter alia, he must not be someone charged with investigative or prosecutorial functions under the relevant statutory scheme. The significant investigatory functions bestowed upon the Restrictive Trade Practices Commission and its members by the Act vitiated a member's ability to act in a judicial capacity in authorizing a s. 10(3) search and seizure and do not accord with the neutrality and detachment necessary to balance the interests involved.
Second, reasonable and probable grounds, established upon oath, to believe that an offence has been committed and that there is evidence to be found at the place of the search, constitutes the minimum standard consistent with s. 8 of the Charter for authorizing searches and seizures."
There you go - link and all.
On Tuesday, Elections Canada spokesperson John Enright said the action was not related to the lawsuit.
Yikes! I missed that! Thanks, Joane.
So it's a bold-faced lie. But Canadians can trust Elections Canada, right?
I smell another lawsuit.
Paul, re: Corbeil. This is sweet!! Thanks.
Thanks Gayle.
Link to the Citizen editorial for today. More garbage.
Surecure, your letter was excellent. Please let us know if you get a response or if they print it in Letters to the Editor. Thanks.
I think we need to remember this little gem that Wilson posted over at Steve's - I am copying it over here because I had forgotten and I think it bears repeating.
H/T to Wilson for reminding us.
"Remember PMSHs speech upon winning the leadership of the Conservative Party::
"The tired, old, corrupt Liberal party is cornered like an angry rat," he told the 1,500 assembled Conservatives.
"They are going to attack us like we have never been attacked before ...
they will be this because it is the only way they can survive."
Everyday in QP, the cameras catch the faces of those angry rats.
I do hope the CPC is cataloguing all those charming faces.
Fill your boots Liberals. A campaign of fear and smear won you opposition in 2006."
The rats are busy scurrying around leaving their dirty little trails everywhere!
How will Susan handle the news that the RCMP have just arrested a past liberal leader of the Que wing of the party relating to the sponsorship scandal. Relates to info they got in 2006 and moving money around. Too bad for Dion, sponsorship will again be front and center in Que for a June election. Where does everyone get the date for an election. I know Dion has stated he has a huge responsibility, given him by PMSH to bring down the govt, but it is the PM who can set the date of said election. The campaign must be minimum x number of days, is there a maximum. What if he sets the date for August, or Sept, or maybe around the labor day wkend.
The PM has been accused of being Bushlite, so what if follows the US re length of a campaign.
Will the liberals let Dion out front and center, or keep him hid aka Trudeau. With all that's going on at EC could they get ready for an election in a few wks. They might be in Court.
Thx Alberta Girl. It is important to not get drug into the Liberal mudhole, by Liberals.
I am a women, and I vote Conservative because:
I do not think there is 'Artistic Merit' in child pornography.
As a woman who was part of the 'burn the bra' generation, we fought hard for women to not be treated like property.
I am a women, and I vote Conservative because:
I think ALL women have the right to choose.
NO women should put down another women's choice.
All women should have a voice.
Choose to dedicate yourself to a family, stay at home, or dedicate yourself to a career.
The CPC is the only party that does not degrade one women's choice as a way to propell another women's choice.
I didn't burn my bra to attack women who didn't.
We are all sisters.
"Alberta Girl asks what we can do. The best thing we could do is somehow get the message to the pollsters that females will vote for Stephan Harper."
Ruth is correct, we CPC female supporters must show other female Canadian voters that we are NOT knuckledragging, uneducated, male dominated, racist nutbars. I urge you to have yourselves selected as your E.D.A.'s reps to attend the National Conference in Winnipeg this coming November. The national media and their tv cameras will be all over the weekend and it would present a powerful image to see women of all ages and races etc. attending.
Like I said, Libloggers are women haters:
''You’re the biggest hypocrite online wilson, do the world a favor and get your tubes tied.''
Steve V
All the references to liberal rats explains why we have no liberal mps from Alberta. We take pride that we are a rat free province.
Regina voters: Are you paying any attention to your elected mp, and will you re-elect him. Please say no to Goodale.
Wilson, it's funny how bloggers from the so-called party of tolerance and the Charter are so quick to denigrate women when it suits their purpose...
"All the references to liberal rats explains why we have no liberal mps from Alberta. We take pride that we are a rat free province."
HA HA - good one Mary!!!!
Joanne (True Blue) said…
"Link to the Citizen editorial for today. More garbage."
You're right - the Citizen editorial is garbage, starting with The Citizen's premise that the Conservative Party is paranoid of the entrenched "foundation stones of the Canadian polity: the public service, the judiciary, and especially the press."
Imagine being at your place of business and getting a knock on the door, to find a horde including officers from Elections Canada, the RCMP, reporters from various media organizations and the Liberal Party of Canada with beaming floodlights, video recorders, cameras, flash-bulbs, and voice recorders, all totally unexpectedly, and apparently over a relatively low-level civil matter generally thought to be under control.
"The Conservatives should have welcomed the attention. If they are, as they claim, being persecuted, then they have nothing to hide."
Give us a friggin' break. What a bunch of shameless idiots at the Citizen.
The Citizen must think its readership is really stupid to not mention the obvious in their editorial, that the media frenzy of the "raid" appears to be an orchestrated political stunt, complete with appearance of possible collusion between Elections Canada officials, the media, and the Liberal Party of Canada.
It was it only a few weeks ago that a big-shot left-wing activist "discovered" DND blueprints neatly organized in a garbage can on Bank Street in Ottawa, while on his way to dinner (imagine that, scoping out the street-side trash while strolling with your wife), which The Citizen turned into a 2 day front page negative headline extravaganza.
With so many “coincidences” to smear the government from the left, is it any wonder the government might occasionally speculate on collusion against them by certain "foundation stones of the Canadian polity"?
Any comments on that from Pablo Rodriguez or the CBC?
"They see Liberal spies everywhere. Anyone who got his or her job while the Liberals were in charge -- as former nuclear watchdog Linda Keen did - is suspect."
If anyone is paranoid, it's the Ottawa Citizen's editorial board.
I cancelled my subscription recently, since I grew tired of reading their left-wing biased editorials, and the all-too-frequent puffed up anti-Conservative headlines on The Citizen’s front pages. If I want local news, I listen to CFRA.
I encourage people who disagree with their tripe to write letters to the editor, and any columnist you disagree with.
Perhaps The Citizen and their paying advertizers will eventually start to realize that drive-by smears no longer sell, especially if your pretension is that it’s fair and balanced journalism.
Joanne (True Blue) said…
"Link to the Citizen editorial for today. More garbage."
You're right - the Citizen editorial is garbage, starting with The Citizen's premise that the Conservative Party is paranoid of the entrenched "foundation stones of the Canadian polity: the public service, the judiciary, and especially the press."
Imagine being at your place of business and getting a knock on the door, to find a horde including officers from Elections Canada, the RCMP, reporters from various media organizations and the Liberal Party of Canada with beaming floodlights, video recorders, cameras, flash-bulbs, and voice recorders, all totally unexpectedly, and apparently over a relatively low-level civil matter generally thought to be under control.
"The Conservatives should have welcomed the attention. If they are, as they claim, being persecuted, then they have nothing to hide."
Give us a friggin' break. What a bunch of shameless idiots at the Citizen.
The Citizen must think its readership is really stupid to not mention the obvious in their editorial, that the media frenzy of the "raid" appears to be an orchestrated political stunt, complete with appearance of possible collusion between Elections Canada officials, the media, and the Liberal Party of Canada.
It was it only a few weeks ago that a big-shot left-wing activist "discovered" DND blueprints neatly organized in a garbage can on Bank Street in Ottawa, while on his way to dinner (imagine that, scoping out the street-side trash while strolling with your wife), which The Citizen turned into a 2 day front page negative headline extravaganza.
With so many “coincidences” to smear the government from the left, is it any wonder the government might occasionally speculate on collusion against them by certain "foundation stones of the Canadian polity"?
Any comments on that from Pablo Rodriguez or the CBC?
"They see Liberal spies everywhere. Anyone who got his or her job while the Liberals were in charge -- as former nuclear watchdog Linda Keen did - is suspect."
If anyone is paranoid, it's the Ottawa Citizen's editorial board.
I cancelled my subscription recently, since I grew tired of reading their left-wing biased editorials, and the all-too-frequent puffed up anti-Conservative headlines on The Citizen’s front pages. If I want local news, I listen to CFRA.
I encourage people who disagree with their tripe to write letters to the editor, and any columnist you disagree with.
Perhaps The Citizen and their paying advertizers will eventually start to realize that drive-by smears no longer sell, especially if your pretension is that it’s fair and balanced journalism.
I personally think that it's about time that Conservative bloggers and supporters alike join forces with what the Libertarian party pushed back in 2006 via a letter to Elections Canada demanding that the Liberal Party of Canada be deregistered as a political party in Canada.
You can check it out here:
http://www.libertarian.ca/english/news/05dec03-deregister-liberals.html
As they clearly point out, the LPC clearly violated clause 497 of the Elections Act (their "giving back" of money PROVES it!) which would thereby demand that the party be deregistered. The fact that Elections Canada has ignored to engage the Libertarian Party's request only shows the biased nature of Elections Canada as a whole.
I think it's time that Conservative Party supporters everywhere stop being intimidated and go on a full attack of both Elections Canada and the Liberal Party with the weight of the one thing they cannot defend themselves against: the law of the Elections Act. If all the bloggers and all Conservative supporters demand that Elections Canada enforce their own laws, which they have been ignoring for at least 2 years, then we can make enough of a stink that both Elections Canada and the Liberals will have mud on their face. And if we're loud enough and get it covered in the media, every time they talk about this so-called "in-and-out" scheme it will only remind Canadians that Elections Canada has yet to enforce the law against the Liberal Party.
Anybody in?
Funny thing - Adler and Mike Duffy are discussing the GREAT scam of all time ADSCAM!
Lest we forget......
"Delegitimizing the courts, the public service, the media and so many other Canadian institutions may play well to the Conservative base, but it does nothing to strengthen the country."
While I agree with the above statement made in the Citizen editorial Joanne referenced, perhaps all those columnists and political pundits who keep blaming the loss of the last election on the announcement made by the RCMP re: a possible leak on income trusts should reread that sentence.
How many times has the work of the police, local, provincial or federal, been discredited by some so-called investigative reporter?
How many times have political commentators accused current politicians, dismissing them as merely seeking photo-ops when they tried to intervene in sensitive cases?
How many times have political pundits and reporters disparaged an entire segment of the electorate merely because they were/are Reform/Alliance/Conservatives supporters?
How many times have political pundits and opposition MPs called the legitimately elected Conservative government unCanadian because of some of their policies?
Even at a very local level, a radio talk show host dismissed my argument as something I'd read in The National Post, while he had based his entirely on a report from The Toronto Star's Susan Delacourt, that paragon of objectivity.
So maybe The Citizen's contention "may play well to the Conservative base" should be extended to ALL parties, which must bear the same burden.
Well, Well VERY interesting discussion on Adler w Mike Duffy.
Mike made the observation that "too many young journalists today don't think before they jump"
Mike Duffy is my new favorite TV personality!!!
I just wish he would call some of the outright lies that the opposition tries to put forth on his show.
Oh well Wilson consider the source (SS)steve V is not the brightest light in the firmament. He keeps removing my posts and then complains that SDA doesn't allow dissenting opinion.
L. Ian Macdonald was just on MDL saying that when Elections Canada carried away the Conservative Party's whole court caseload, it violated client-attorney privilege or something like that.
Somebody called in a pretty big favor. Dirty, dirty, dirty little stunt. EC is still scaring the heck out of me but now I'm starting to get mad. What, the EC doesn't have to follow the law (their own laws) and serve the country? They can take documents from the other side in a pending civil case against them and use Canada's revered RCMP to do it? Well. I would have expected this in Pakistan but it surprises me in Canada. The laws are only for us "little people" and not the loudly chattering elite eh? We'll see about that.
Could someone please give me a link to the discussion between Duffy and Adler? much obliged.
Hi May - I was just listening at my desk this afternoon - I would assume that you could get it at the Chorus radio station site. I tried to find it for you, but my technological knowledge is somewhat limited - although it may be that it isn't up yet (I think that may be it)
I am sure others will find it though given some time.
May, you can listen to Adler with Duffy here:
http://www.940news.com/members.php
Just register (free registration, and then go to April 18, at 2:00 pm.
The interview begins at about the 36:24 mark.
Happy listening!
Thanks, Gabby & Alberta Girl. I'll be checking it out too.
What a great team we have here! :)
Thank you for that link too. I like to hear different views from across the country so I will be tuning in also. I also notice that Dave Ramsey's show is on that station at nights. He is such a postive guy about the economy, not all this doom and gloom we hear from a lot of them.
MDL was interesting tonight. And we learn that the court documents have now been unsealed.
Why do the Liberals keep insisting that the Tories know what is in the "sealed" search warrant?
Why was it sealed in the first place?
Why was it sealed in the first place?
I think that's some legal thing, but your question about why the Liberals keep asking the question about what is in the sealed warrant, is likely designed to draw attention to the issue. I don't see how the Conservatives would know.
There was some discussion about this on MDL tonight. I honestly don't think that the average Canadian cares about this kind of thing anyway, but I could be wrong.
My "source" tells me that security cameras caught the media and a certain photographer at the Conservative Party office a full 20 minutes ahead of Elections Canada and the RCMP.
This will be addressed when the parties lawyers get to ask questions of the EC officials. Someones got some splainin to do. The best part is the Conservative parties argument is that EC is unfairly targeting them and not the other parties. Looks like the staged raid is just going to add further proof to their claims.
Beautiful. Thanks, Paul.
Looks like the staged raid is just going to add further proof to their claims.
Da proof is da proof!
Ian MacDonald also questioned how the press and the Liberals knew about the 'raid' ahead of time.
Martha Hall Findlay in QP today: "Elections Canada has confirmed that the raid was not related to the civil law suit..."
Gee, you'd think these guys would read the Star!
MHF clip on MDL.
I have posted before that I think this whole thing seems like a set up.
I'm more convinced tonite. The more that comes out the more I think it could be so.
BTW Angry has a pretty good post about who this Andre Thouin really is. You know the man in the photos with the box.
The warrant was sealed by the justice who granted it - as I understand it EC did not ask for the seal. Generally they are sealed to protect the subject of the warrant as they usually contain allegations that have not been proven in a court of law.
Personally I am all for maintaining the seal. If the CPC are charged and convicted then the information should be released. Otherwise it is just allegations and should be kept private.
"My "source" tells me that security cameras caught the media and a certain photographer at the Conservative Party office a full 20 minutes ahead of Elections Canada and the RCMP."
This is not new. The CBC were there two hours ahead and were broadcasting that. The libs came after they learned about the raid on the CBC.
Thanks for the link Gabby!
"This is not new. The CBC were there two hours ahead and were broadcasting that. The libs came after they learned about the raid on the CBC."
Wrong Gayle. The Liberal photographer arrived before CBC or any other media outlet had reported the story. CPC has the photgrapher on video standing outside the door, long before both EC and the RCMP arrived.
The fact is EC leaked the search warrant. So please explain what the reasons would be for tipping off the Liberal's, from a supposed non-partisan agency. And further proof of the Liberal's is they stated minutes after the search started they planned on using the footage in the elction campaign. Sounds pretty contrived to me.
Regardless, Elections Canada has given the Conservative Party another stick to beat them over the head with.
Looking forward to hearing Gayle's response to Paul's last comment!
If you go over to Garths blog, he quotes the liberal staffer as having to look up the address before he acually knew where to go.
As Garth said on MDL, this does not pass MY smell test.
he quotes the liberal staffer as having to look up the address before he acually knew where to go.
lol! And they expect us to believe that?
I did call him on that point Joanne...this is his reply to me.
"It’s a city full of office buildings, not a moose pasture. The CPC head office is in a suite on the 12th floor of a building that does not have a picture of Stephen Harper on the exterior. At least, not yet. — Garth"
I wish I would have seen that before today, as Austyn and I have only had 1 Moose run through yard. If he would of said deer pasture, I would have to agree.
"CPC has the photgrapher on video standing outside the door, long before both EC and the RCMP arrived.'
Link please. I know there is a suggstion the liberals arrived before EC and the RCMP, but still after the CBC started broadcasting this as the CBC were there 2 hours before the search commenced.
And why do you think that EC leaked this instead of the RCMP, who has a history of leaking these things? Do you have something, ANYTHING, to back that up?
Gayle - how about instead of demanding that we produce links to prove points, you produce links to prove us wrong.
Like you said earlier Gayle - maybe we should wait until the facts come out. Well they are now coming out and because you don't like where they are going, you are challenging them.
As Mike Duffy alluded to yesterday - too many journalists today jump without thinking - they jump on stories; printing facts, playing loose with headlines full of innuendo that in the end turns around and bites them in the ass.
It seems that is what has been happening with EVERY SINGLE one of the pseudo scandals the Libs have tried to use against the Tories.
Mulroney Schrieber - Old Karl promised to sing if he got out of jail - nada.
Cadman-gate They thought they had him, but now facts are coming out that seem to prove the tape may have been edited.
NAFTA gate - another scandal - yet it turns out it was journalists that somehow turned names around and leaked information from a locked up meeting.
Brenda-gate - remember that one Gayle, well as time goes on and more and more we get to see a woman who tries her best to derail her own chances yet continues to blame Stephen Harper.
And Now - THE RCMP RAID - sealed documents the EC doesn't want to release - the EC taking boxes of information pertaining to a civil case (that sounds a bit like thuggery, Gayle) - and yet the Libs continue to rail away like this is some corrupt scheme all the while the real scandal of the century Adscam keeps coming back.
I truly think this is the REAL reason for all the pseudo scandals Gayle. The Libs know that Adscam was going to be rearing its ugly head in the minds of voters via arrests etc. and they wanted to head it off at the pass by trying to present the Tories as just as corrupt.
Oh and the link for that
www.Blue Like You. blogger.com/comment #57.
"...how about instead of demanding that we produce links to prove points, you produce links to prove us wrong."
Since when in civilized debate does someone have to prove a negative?
How about this one:
"Stephen Harper has a hidden agenda. If he gets a majority he will remove women's votings rights and force them to quit their jobs and be housewives. This will be his answer for the rise in unemployment should the economy take a dive. He will not criminalize abortion, but he will grant the fathers absolute control over whether the mother gives birth or has an abortion."
You cannot prove that is wrong, no matter how ridiculous it sounds. That is why in civilized debate the person making the assertion is the one who bears the onus of proving it - at least they do if they want to be taken seriously.
And then you go on to list a number of things you do not back up. What evidence is there the tape was dubbed? (and if it was, why doesn't Harper tell us what he really said - doesn't he know?)
As for the proof the liberals found out about this from the CBC, well Joanne has linked to articles that support this. Why don't you read Don Martin's column for one.
I believe you believe this nonsense. All I am doing here is pointing out that it has no basis in reality.
By the way, according to the reporters on Don Newman yesterday it was the judge who sealed the warrant. I believe that to be true because that is common practice, and the reason it is common is to protect the party being searched. I happen to agree that is necessary so I think it is wrong the warrant be unsealed, given that it may contain a number of unproven allegations that may operate to unfairly damage the reputation of the CPC. We should wait to find out if they are actually charged and convicted. That said, I also understand it has been unsealed and will become available on Monday.
"Link please. I know there is a suggstion the liberals arrived before EC and the RCMP, but still after the CBC started broadcasting this as the CBC were there 2 hours before the search commenced."
Well, first off Gayle, Van Lowen mentioned it a few times in Question Period. Conservative MP's have stated it on Duffy, but most of all I have two very close relatives who work for the Conservative Party, who were polite enough to pass on the information.
This is just the beginning Gayle. The judge in Toronto will have to explain his decision, EC will have to explain why they had to go to a judge in Toronto, and the timeline of events will show the source of the leak.
As for the former Liberal charged yesterday in Adscam, more charges will be coming against against other Liberal party members. It's amazing how quick the rats will turn on themselves.
"Van Lowen mentioned it a few times in Question Period."
THAT is your evidence?
Snort.
All that spinning giving you sinus problems gayle?
Let's everyone try to avoid the personal attacks, O.K.?
"THAT is your evidence?"
That and the fact my relative works for the party, and is privy to the fact that the Liberal photographer was videotaped far earlier than EC and the RCMP arrived.
Good enough for you Gayle? And as I pointed out, this will be put before EC official's during questioning, along with the proof on video.
And hey, what's with this link fetish you have developed?
paul - my point is that does not establish that the raid was leaked to the liberals, because that does not counter their contention (which is backed up by the media) that they first heard about this on the CBC, who were there first.
Gayle, the Liberal photographer arrived before the EC and RCMP. The photographer was also there far before CBC or any other outlet had reported it.
Let's try this. CPC has the photographer on video before the EC and RCMP showed up. How did the CBC report a raid that had not taken place? Please, explain it to me.The photographer was there, standing in the hallway, before anyone arrived, please explain how the photographer was sent to a raid that had not taken place.
What happened Gayle was the Liberal's got caught being sloppy, being a little to gung ho in another desperate attempt to smear the Tory's. If they had half a brain, they would have sat outside and waited for the EC and RCMP to show up.
paul - the CBC were there 2 hours before the raid started. They broadcasted the fact there would be a raid. They showed pictures. The liberals saw that on CBC and came over there with their cameras.
That is it in a nutshell - Backed up by the media.
the CBC were there 2 hours before the raid started.
Why were they there two hours before?
I assume because whoever leaked it gave them the wrong time.
Ah, now all we need to find out is exactly who in Elections Canada decided that CBC should be notified that this was going down.
Was this a directive from the top, or a breach of confidentiality by a lowly mole?
Joanne - I do not think you should assume EC leaked it.
Who then, Gayle? The RCMP?
Yes, they could have leaked it (they certainly have a history of leaking raids on politicians).
Any number of people could have known about it. Maybe a court clerk leaked it, or a custodian who saw it on a desk somewhere.
Who knows?
Yes, they could have leaked it (they certainly have a history of leaking raids on politicians).
Any number of people could have known about it. Maybe a court clerk leaked it, or a custodian who saw it on a desk somewhere.
*Who knows?*
And yet, here you are again, putting your spin on how things happened.
"Any number of people could have known about it. Maybe a court clerk leaked it, or a custodian who saw it on a desk somewhere."
Gayle - what makes you think EC was NOT the source of the leak?
link please
Read what I said AG. I never said it was not EC - just that we do not know if it was.
You people have been unwilling to consider anyone else leaked it because EC leaking it fits in nicely with your theory of bias.
"You people have been unwilling to consider anyone else leaked it because EC leaking it fits in nicely with your theory of bias."
Not true, Gayle. You have been strongly denying that EC was the source of the leak, suggesting that it could have been anyone else but.
You are right - we do not know and probably never will, but for you to vehemently deny that it could have been EC is just as partisan as those who suggest it could have been.
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