Thursday, April 17, 2008

Does Elections Canada have 'an agenda'?

Just how 'non-partisan' is Elections Canada?

The fact that Gerry Nichols who is usually a thorn in Harper's side, actually backed up the Conservative Party yesterday with this post, is probably one of the most telling indicators of where the truth actually lies.

Gerry pulls no punches. And the Globe seemed impressed enough to report on his observations this morning.

Yesterday, on MDL, Garth Turner kept referring to things not passing the smell test. (Great post, Sentinel).


Well, I think something just reeks. Why were the CBC, and the Liberal party first off the block with this story? Does the NDP not watch Newsworld? Some reports have certain suspects actually waiting for the RCMP and Elections Canada to arrive. Jason Kenney said as much on the aforementioned MDL clip.


Don Martin discloses the following observations:

...The real interesting part, which has a lot of Conservative MPs in a lather, is how two camera crews magically surfaced to stake out both floors rented by the Conservative party within minutes of the search warrant being executed.

The RCMP cruisers were unmarked and the police scanner didn't broadcast the "visit," so unless CBC journalists are telepathic, the only plausible explanation is that they were tipped by Elections Canada.

And being dedicated Newsworld watchers, gleeful Liberals armed with their own cameras were scrambled to record the "visitation" within minutes of the news being broadcast...

He also calls Elections Canada's actions "heavy-handed".


A comment at Warren Kinsella's blog caught my attention:

...And André Thouin just happens to be an ex-RCMP officer.

I believe the RCMP, the Liberals, and the media were there so early because Mr. Thouin arranged it so. The weapons and flak jackets make no sense at all, except to draw attention to the fact that these were no mere Elections Canada lackies. Whatever the case, it was well played. And clearly a "PR stunt" by EC.

There's nothing wrong with calling it like it is.
Sitsonsix | 04.16.08 - 7:37 pm

Canadians need to be reassured that such a vital institution as Elections Canada actually is non-partisan. Our democracy depends on it.

The optics sure aren't comforting.

117 comments:

Alberta Girl said...

I think your title is rhetorical!!! ha ha

Interesting article by Mr. Beer and Popcorn himself cautioning AGAINST an election - wonder what he knows from internal polls?

With respect to the Elections Canada thing - there are a few journalists (liberal hack - Jimmy T for one) who seem a bit too gleeful in their stories. Although I am confident this will go the way of every other pseudo scandal, they seem to be ratcheting up the level - it is interesting that they got the RCMP to go along with their scam - I guess when you have friends in high places..... wonder who the judge was that gave the ok for the search warrant? Interesting that we have not seen that search warrant yet? You would think the Libs would be plastering it all over their sites??

As our old friend Garth said on MDL yesterday - this doesn't pass the smell test. Although I just about chocked on my beer and popcorn when he said it didn't pass his smell test!!!

Should be an interesting few months.

Alberta Girl said...

Um that should be that I CHOKED on my beer and popcorn - although when Garth is involved I could have CHOCKED as well as he makes one do very strange things.

Platty said...

The only thing that Garth Turner worries about passing his smell test is another opportunity to say "Okay, on me in four, three, two....."

Gayle said...

Your desperation is really showing. So some blogger who generally opposes Harper actually supports this conspiracy theory, and that is all the "proof" you need to believe it is true? As I said on Taylor's blog, this is really pathetic.

Elections Canada is world renowned as an independent agency that sets the example for fair and unbiased elections. Perhaps that is why they are called upon to go to other countries and help monitor their elections.

Have you considered actually waiting to see what comes of this warrant before jumping to your unsupported conclusions? What if no charges are actually laid? Will you accept they are unbiased then? Because the problem with this little tactic by the cons is that they will be giving the impression that all the government has to do is denigrate an independent agency to get that agency to back off.

Not to mention the fact the two men who head that agency were appointed by the conservatives! How do you explain that? Were they kidnapped and brainwashed by liberal/CBC operatives?

Do you even try to offer an explanation for the fact the Cons have been filibustering the committee looking into this whole affair? I suppose that is down to the liberals/CBC/Bob Fife/RCMP/EC/Senate/Liberal biased judges too...

No, instead of waiting to see what happens the lot of you are prepared to jump to the conclusion that it MUST be bias, despite the complete and utter lack of anything even remotely resembling evidence this is so.

That Globe article you linked to says it all really. Every time the cons come into conflict with anyone, it must be a conspiracy because of the anti-con bias that permeates this country. That you all are prepared to accept this, rather than view matters objectively, is a little creepy. It is almost a cult.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

It is almost a cult.

This from the one who roams all over BT sites putting out fires with red koolaid... Hilarious!



Not to mention the fact the two men who head that agency were appointed by the conservatives! How do you explain that? Were they kidnapped and brainwashed by liberal/CBC operatives?

Last night I was watching a news clip - can't remember who said it because I was so tired - but the rumour was that there could very well be Liberal moles inside Elections Canada who disclosed the information to the Liberals and CBC.

The tip didn't necessarily have to come from the top, Gayle.

I hope the RCMP was able to safeguard the Conservative Party's private election campaign strategies from prying eyeballs.

tori said...

"Have you considered actually waiting to see what comes of this warrant before jumping to your unsupported conclusions? "

perhaps gayle should take her own advice...

Cliff said...

Clearly something doesn't pass the smell test here...is it merely coincidence that a day before Election Canada officials were to testify under oath about their activities, they initiate this action. What are they afraid of?
Then, they apparently leak to the CBC and the Liberal party that they will be at Conservative headquarters.
Clearly, they are concerned about the impending civil actions and are hoping to sway public opinion.
I honestly believe the actions of these Elections Canada officials may be doing irrepairable harm to this agency and clearly showing a bias in an effort to sway the election process.
Keep in mind they have already been wrong and lost one civil action initiated by Bob Rae...obviously putting substantial monies into the pockets of the former leadership candidates.

Anonymous said...

C'mon Gayle, what do you know?

You have been trolling around since the raid on every site to make comment and asserting legal superiority.

Out with it woman.

If you have knowledge of new information then pray tell, make it public.

Lord knows the cowards at Election Canada are keeping quite.

You work for them?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Keep in mind they have already been wrong and lost one civil action initiated by Bob Rae...obviously putting substantial monies into the pockets of the former leadership candidates.

Cliff, could you please refresh my memory on that one? Thanks.

Personally, I can't wait to see what the warrant says.

If this turns out to be an 'Oopsie - we goofed. Sorry' type thing, then I think the CPC should look into exactly whether or not there was evidence of collusion, because the photos and sound-bytes may have now done harm to the Conservative brand with the news etc. These images linger - much like the seal hunt propaganda that the Premiers are so opposed to.

Alberta Girl said...

"Elections Canada is world renowned as an independent agency that sets the example for fair and unbiased elections"

There is a perception that the United Nations is a world renowned unbaised body yet we all know it is full of self serving dictators.

Perception, Gayle, is in the eye of the beholder. EC may be independent on the world stage, but here at home, the partisanship seems to be rearing its ugly head.

The FACT, Gayle, that you continually rail away at how horrible Harper and the Tories are seems, well, almost cult-like.

The thing is Gayle - yes, waiting is a good thing, yet the media and the liberals have tarred, feathered, convicted and videotaped the whole thing so that they can continue to spread the perception to the unsuspecting Canadian that the Tories broke the law. Where are the stories about how this is a common practice among ALL parties???

So yes Gayle - lets wait - and if they are shown to be innocent, I will expect you to demand that the headlines on every newspaper and every newscast broadcast this fact.

That, Gayle is the travesty - even when it is shown that it was all for show, that the Conservatives did nothing wrong, it may rate some small story on the back pages or a brief blurp surrouned by innuendos on the evening news.


So let's just wait Gayle - and see if I am not right in my perceptions.

Gabby in QC said...

"That you all are prepared to accept this, rather than view matters objectively ..."

To view things as objectively as you do, right, Gayle?

To state categorically that the government hasn't done enough, as in the B. Martin case, without any supporting links or proof.

To state categorically that the search warrant has nothing to do with the civil suit brought against EC by the Conservatives, without any supporting links or proof.

Dear sweet Gayle, we are all expressing opinions here, SUBJECTIVE and PARTISAN opinions. What of it?

Your comment suggesting that because conservatives support the Conservatives it’s tantamount to “almost a cult” illustrates perfectly the Liberal kind of arrogance I for one detest: one cannot hold any opinion other than a Liberal one, otherwise one is "creepy."

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Seal hunt info here, BTW.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Gayle, in addition to what you said, I just want to say that if the CPC was found guilty in a court of law of criminal wrongdoing, I would not be able to support it any longer.

But as far as I know, they haven't had a criminal conviction. Or did I miss something in the news?

Anonymous said...

We all know the "Pablo" story and the "thick association the liberals have with the CBC"..... why is this surprising, tipped off from Election Canada who were all appointed by the previous liberal Government........ just another ploy for the media to keep dion's gaffs off the radar.... It is so very difficult for them day in and day out to report on Dion, and how extremely poor he really is, they are doing all they can to make and invent stories as negative against the Tories as they can.... - did anyone see Dion's news interview when asked if the liberal party was tipped off.... He was stammering and falling all over himself.. true sign of a quilty party....

Reid said...

Garth Turner is a joke. What doesn't pass the sniff test to me is that the Liberals have been trying to pump this so called "in & out" scandal for many many months now. Why is it all of a sudden yesterday Garth tells the world of how he & Esther declined to partake in it because they thought it was stinky? Why did it take Garth so long to come out with this story? That's what's smelly.

Anonymous said...

Andre Thouin was called to testify at the Gomery inquiry, his testimony speaks for itself, how does this ex-RCMP end up working for Elections Canada?
Who at EC might have tipped off the Lieberals and the media?
Publicity stunt? Definitely!
Although it has delayed these same EC officials from being examined in discovery, it's only a delay.
Their time is just about up.

Fay said...

You know what I find creepy! That in a democracy of numerous political parties, Election Canada can at a whim retain a search warrant. Then walk in to any political Party headquarters and remove any files they want. Then we are supposed to trust that this information will remain confidential.
All political parties should be worried. Election Canada needs to prove to Canadians now that they are, fair and impartial. Show us what the other political parties are doing differently.
the actions taken by Election Canada are scaring the heck out of me.There better be a very good reason for all of this or all canadians should be very worried.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

the actions taken by Election Canada are scaring the heck out of me.There better be a very good reason for all of this or all canadians should be very worried.

Thank you, Fay. That, in a nutshell, is the purpose of this post.

Gabby in QC said...

Furthermore, for those like Gayle, who insists on links only when conservatives express an opinion but who never furnishes one herself, here's one from Steve Janke: http://stevejanke.com/archives/260356.php
He's got some documentation showing both the NDP and the LIberals doing the same things the Conservatives are being singled out for.

If it's the wrong thing to do for the Conservatives' ad campaigns, why is it acceptable for other parties' ads? This has been at the nub of the dispute.

In committee, the Conservatives have been maintaining all along that if their election ads are questionable, let's review ALL parties' ads to see whether all parties are following the same rules.
And guess what? The other parties refused to examine other parties' funding of ads.

Is it any wonder small-c conservatives feel their guys - yes, MY guys, so sue me! - are being wrongly accused?

Reid said...

Joanne:

Liberals vs Elections Canada in a nutshell:

http://tinyurl.com/47j3s3

Gayle said...

"This from the one who roams all over BT sites putting out fires with red koolaid..."

Actually, I have been posting actual, verifiable facts. I even referred to the section of the criminal code and the SCC case that support me. I am still waiting for someone to counter me with actual, verifiable facts.

Apparently I have to say, again, for your benefit and for that of people like tori, that from the start I have said this means nothing more than a justice was convinced, on reasonable grounds backed up with actual evidence, that evidence of an offence would be found at the CPC headquarters. It does NOT mean the CPC is guilty of anything. (By the way fay, read my responses to reid on the earlier thread where I completey debunk your notion that a warrant may be obtained on a whim. You can read the SCC case of Hunter and Southam if you do not believe me).

Too bad people here are not prepared to give EC the same benefit of the doubt we all are prepared to give the CPC.

paulsstuff said...

"Elections Canada is world renowned as an independent agency that sets the example for fair and unbiased elections. Perhaps that is why they are called upon to go to other countries and help monitor their elections"

Right, that's why they refused to investigate the Liberal's giving away televisions in a riding while picking up and driving the voters to vote Liberal on a chartered bus.

That's why they refused to investigate Anne McLelland's riding when it was found a large number of voters were all registered to the same address, an abandoned warehouse in the riding. Add into that the fact that many of those voters were found to have donated or assisted in McLelland's campaign.

Or just explain the fact that in the 2006 election Liberal's and NDP used the same type of in and out financing, yet EC found no reason to refuse their reimbursement from the taxpayer. That is why the Conservative's have agreed to study the whole thing in committee, yet the Liberal's and NDP want to be excused from having their financial records included in the study. Go figure.

It's already been reported that Elections Canada will most likely lose this lawsuit from the Conservative's, and based on affadavits filed in the court case it is easy to see why. At the end of the day some heads are going to roll at EC, unless of course they can come up with a valid reason why they applied the rules differently to only one party.

And once again, getting a warrant would not be a problem. Elections Canada in their ruling said the Conservative's had overspent in violation of EC law. Wether convicted or not, they only have to prove that an offence may have occurred. And the warrant was for EC, not the RCMP. Hey, who knows. maybe they wanted the RCMP to assist because they knew how many news crews they had already tipped off.

And on a side note, anybody wonder how law enforcement would react to, say a leak of a raid on a drug dealer or murder suspects house or business? According to Duffy, Conservative security cameras caught the Liberal photographer (nad the CBC), at the building a full 2 hours before EC and the RCMP arrived.

GrantK1 said...

I can hardly wait till we find out the LPC has attained all the documents seized by the RCMP from the CPC. "Oh they were just in a box left in a vacant office." [Borat Dion] Brilliant!

Reid said...

Check out what Bob Fife says at the end of this report. Hows that for an "agenda?"

http://tinyurl.com/4yg9hh

I still find it funny that the warrant is sealed and no one can see why it was really issued.

Gayle said...

paul - do you have any links to back any of that up? I will be back later to check.

Ruth said...

I want to know how the polls always say the women won't vote for Harper. I know of no women that would vote for Dion, so where do they get these numbers. Several women have replied to WK on this topic this morning too.

Anonymous said...

Have some more Kool-aid Gayle.

maryT said...

A good friend of mine was on the board of Annies riding association. When the antics of the voters registration came out, he left and joined the Alliance party. The stories he told would make even Gayle a believer. Voters registered at their place of employment and also their own addresses. Her opponent brought all this out.
Check out the full page ad in the Ed. Journal a day or so before the last election she won. Sponsored by Friends of Annie, that ad was paid for by the liberal party in a roundabout way. They reimbursed everyone who paid for their name and photo to appear. An org I belong to was approached to take part, but I argued against it and we didn't. How many are aware that Rev Canada is doing an audit of non profit org for the years involved in that election.
Some non profit groups, who get govt funding, supported that ad.
We were told if we went along, in a short time we would receive a donation matching what we spent.
If that is not in and out I don't know what is.

OMMAG said...

What's Gayle's favorite flavour?

Red!

For someone who like to argue about FACTS as she claims in each and every comment.... it's odd that the same fact based commenter has a derogatory snipe to offer for each one.
While demanding fact from one and all to support their opinions offers nothing herself except self professed expertise on a number of matters.

Kind of reminds me of another LIberal loudmouth commenter....
Could it be that Gayle is really Red Tory in Drag!! ??

wilson said...

''That Globe article you linked to says it all really. Every time the cons come into conflict with anyone, it must be a conspiracy''

Yah yah yah, Gayle,
and 2 1/2 years later, we are still listening to all Liberals, Susan Delacourt and Jim Travers ball their eyes out, how the RCMP investigation into Income Trusts , is why the Liberals lost the election, and MUST be investigated because it was a CONSPIRACY.

Liberals lost the election, because they stink.
Adscam still stinks, their policies stunk, their ads stunk, their strategy stunk, their fearmongering stunk, their leader stunk......nothing has changed.
Bring on the election.

Perhaps Gayle, ( the information high priestess for the LPC )
you can tell us why
''Paddy Torsney and Eleni Bakopanos, left their positions on Tuesday'', and why that fact appears in a G&M article about the stink around the RCMP raids and Liberal cameras...what's the connection?

h/t http://canadaconservative.blogspot.com/2008/04/two-more-dion-aides-are-gone.html

Roy Eappen said...

It is always interesting to watch grits. They subverted election after election with brown envelopes full of sponsorship scandal money. Elections Canada thought that wasn't a problem. There is are still tens of millions of sponsorship money missing. somewher between 41 qnd 100 million dollars. The grits and their friends know where this money is. Much of this mone is now probably offshore. One of the convicted grit crooks was brought back from belize.
Elections Canad has damaged its own reputation by its actions. When elections canad loses the court case, I hope many are fired . It is also important to find the grit moles in elections Canada. we are supposed to have a neutral civil service. years of grit treachery and thievery seem to have changed this.
You Can contact the chief electoral officer here.
Once again the grits expect us to forget how they subverted elections with illegal stolen governmnet money. They have no shame.

wilson said...

''Could it be that Gayle is really Red Tory in Drag!! ??''

Red Tory, TiGuy and Gayle are the LPC holy trinity.

RT speaks, TiGuy follows to attack those who don't bow down in his presence, Gayle snipes and diverts.

Anonymous said...

I think we should be asking all those who have worked/volunteered for a federal election campaign anywhere in this country about the competence of Elections Canada.

I would bet that we'd hear some pretty interesting stories about competence and bias against the conservatives.

paulsstuff said...

Laurie Hawn, Conservative Candidate in Edmonton Centre, has filed a complaint with the Commissioner of Elections Canada after massive voter list irregularities were uncovered by his campaign.

For some time, there have been rumors of election irregularities in Edmonton Centre. At an all candidates meeting with Elections Canada on January 4, 2006, it was revealed that two buildings had been struck from the electoral rolls because they were not residences. In reality, these buildings were both mailbox stores.

Several days later, the Laurie Hawn campaign identified a third non-residence building which sells mail boxes and reported it to Elections Canada.

A few days ago, the Laurie Hawn campaign was alerted, via e-mail, by an Edmonton lawyer that:

"Lots of [Anne McLellan] supporters are enumerated at their downtown office address instead of at their houses. One of them was bragging about how many times he could vote liberal (sic) based on the number of leases he had in her riding."

In reaction to this e-mail, the Laurie Hawn campaign acquired a City of Edmonton map which listed all buildings and their street addresses and began thoroughly checking the revised voters list. Despite checking less than half the polls, here are some irregularities that have been identified:


Almost 100 apparently nonexistent addresses in Edmonton's downtown core - in some cases, the addresses listed fictional residences in between two genuine buildings

Hundreds of people registered to vote out of their law offices, medical offices, accounting offices, and Government of Canada offices - in some cases these may be genuine errors, but in other cases, entire families are registered to vote out of high rise office space

Dozens of people registered to vote out of office towers, but who did not list a suite number, causing the address to read similarly to ordinary residences - in many cases, these people are also registered to vote in other ridings using their home addresses, and in other cases, voters living in other ridings are only registered in Edmonton Centre

Dozens of people registered to vote out of small mail box locations and from self-storage yards - there is no legitimate way for a person to appear on the list of Electors from a self-storage yard

Eighteen people registered to vote out of a truck stop

People registered to vote out of karaoke bars, lingerie stores, dance lounges, galleries, etc...

The deadline for revising the list of Electors has now passed, and these irregular voters will remain on the list. In some cases, they have already voted in the advance polls and some of these irregular voters may have voted in previous elections, and may have had an impact on the results in the riding of Edmonton Centre.

So Gayle, any idea why Elections Canada never saw fit to investigate this?

I'll provide a link for the television giveaway shortly, but just to refresh your memory. A tiny riding in the NWT was in the process of being won by the Conservative candidate. Surprisingly, electioneers began reporting of Liberal buses bringing in "voters' at the last minute to get the vote out. Some of these voters later reported that Liberal's were raffling off television sets on the bus, which is strictly prohibited by Elections Canada. Sworn statements were presented that the Liberal's had indeed used a television giveaway to lure votes. What was even more amazing was the voter turnout in the election, 100%, roughly double what it was in previous elections.

Anonymous said...

"I'll be back later to check" says Gayle

Fill your boots sunshine.

"world renowned as an independent agemcy that set the example for fair and unbiased elections"

remember that when they lose the court challenge.

Better stock up popcorn and beer.

OMMAG said...

Wilson.... Yep!
But I meant it in the spirit of a good natured challenge..... I think Gayle is probably the most cogent of the habitual ideological challengers that I've seen here.
I don't make a daily habit of lurking in the BT's or the Libblaghs so I can't say how much about how prolific she is ... she just reminds me of RT's style of deriding assumptions as unjustified conclusions then using his own as supposed trumps.

He's such a Devil! .... In A Red Dress?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Does anyone know exactly who Elections Canada reports to?

Would they have to report to the Auditor General?

paulsstuff said...

"For example, the poll in question from the Ahtahkakoop reserve came in 3 hours late, and in addition to around 380 voters who were on the voters list, another 240 people were sworn in.

Update - Conservative candidate Jeremy Harrison appeared later in the day with CKOM host David Kirton. They have collected a number of affadavits and it sounds as though the complaint and request for an investigation is going ahead. Furthermore, the chief of Ahtahkakoop, Larry Ahenikew, has reportedly acknowledged on camera that a television set was raffled during the election - a violation of the Elections Act. Although Ahenikew issued a news release a couple of days ago, attempts by media to contact him since have proven fruitless."

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Reid, thanks for that link about Bob Rae and Elections Canada. I'll be filing that one away for future use...

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Reid, Paul, Gabby, Dr. Roy & others, thanks for all this information and the links you've provided. Lots to pour over here.

Seems to me there were complaints to EC about ridings in Toronto where people were voting twice, etc.

Gayle said...

paul - could you please provide actual links? I am not sure why you never do this rather than repaste snippets of a story.

As for the McLellan issue, as I recall (and I think it is verified by your story), EC actually did intervene and advised the voters in question that next time they would be forced to vote in the riding where they reside. In any event, hate to burst your bubble there, but the wrongdoers in that case were the voters, and not the Liberal party, unless you can find a link that suggests the liberal party actively participated in registering voters in the ridings where they work rather than where they live.

As for the rest of you, I always know I have won the argument when you resort to personal attacks and raising unrelated liberal bashing issues.

When one of you wants to have a reasonable, mature discussion, let me know.

Anonymous said...

and yet here you troll Gayle. I think you have it backwards.

Have you supplied the posters here with all the evidence that you claim to have?

Works both ways doesn't it?

When we call you on it you do claim it to be "personal" it's not personal at all.

It's you being accountable to this blog and its owner.

Gayle said...

Anon - I have no evidence, I have fact.

If you go back and read my posts you will see I have provided SCC case names and criminal code sections that support my points.

If you read what I actually say, I am not condemning the CPC at all. I am merely pointing out that the warrant cannot be part of the lawsuit, and that blaming EC for bias is wrongheaded and unsupported by any objective view of the circumstances.

Anonymous said...

Most of the things liberals like Gayle say can also be turned back to them on things that they love to complain about.


This is the perfect example of how a liberal mind works and what we always hear on the news and read in the papers.

http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/415288

If is something the cons supposedly do they should open the books. When it is something the libs supposedly do, we should drag the liberal appointee in front of a committee to find why they did what they did.

paulsstuff said...

"paul - could you please provide actual links? I am not sure why you never do this rather than repaste snippets of a story."

Because links never seeem to work if they are long. Feel free to google it. Only takes a minute. As for McLellands riding, EC said they did not think an investigation was neccesary, something along the lines of it's already in the past? As for the TV raffles, they also ruled the charges were unfounded, and chose not to investigate. despite having numerous sworn affadvits stating otherwise. Go figure.

And once again Gayle, if the rules are being applied equally to all parties and the Conservative's are the only ones to have violated the rule, then they should assume responsibility for it. But take a look at Janke or Taylor's sites, seeing as you post there. Both have given proof of both Liberal and NDP campaigns financed in the same way, yet EC allowed their claims for a rebate.

That's where the confusion is. It's gotta be the same rule for all parties, and judging by papers filed in the lawsuit by the Conservative's, it isn't. In the 2004 election Paul Martin and the Liberal's did the exact same thing, without even providing the local candidates name on the advertising, yet EC says it should be allowed as local advertising. In 2006 Olivia Chow, and Libby Davies did the exact same in and out, and EC allowed their claims. Do tell?

Gayle said...

And by the way, if this blog and its owner has a problem with my, she will tell me herself. I have never taken Joanne to be a wallflower.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

f this blog and its owner has a problem with my, she will tell me herself. I have never taken Joanne to be a wallflower.

No, I'm far from that.

Perhaps everyone could just take a deep breath here, and r-e-l-a-x...

Gayle said...

paul - I wandered over to Janke's site (I cannot post there - I will assume it has something to do with my work computer).

First, the amount of money he refers to on the liberal front totals approximately 4000 dollars over two elections - a far cry from the 1.2 million dollars the conservatives are alleged to have transferred in this scheme. I accept, however, that the amount is not relevant.

What is relevant is this:

1. the conservatives are alleged to have over-spent on their national campaigns by 1.2 million dollars. There is no similar allegation that the liberals overspent by 4000 dollars.

2. The advertising Janke refers to was only shown in local markets. The advertising in question with the CPC was television advertising that was seen hundreds of miles from the ridings in question.

3. The CPC tried to have this evidence admitted as part of their lawsuit. The Court would not allow it. It is not about the opposition refusing.

EBD said...

Andre Thouin isn't just an ex-RCMP officer, he was the Director General of Public Relations at RCMP Headquarters during the 125th anniversary celebrations, the event which was the locus of the truly curious sponsorship transactions that pertained to the RCMP.

At Gomery, he said in his testimony that all he had to do reagarding the 125th was "jump on the bandwagon." He was aware of the involvement of Gosselin Communications, he testified, and he knew about talks asking for funds occurring with Gosselin. At one point he read out loud, as requested, his notes: "So, we have: 'Changes. Pressure. Gagliano. Jean Pelletier."

Thouin sent a fax to Chuck Guite wishing him good luck in his discussions with his minister, whom he acknowledge was Alfonso Gagliano.

It's creepy -- hi, Gayle -- to see this guy a few years later, now in another bureaucracy -- Elections Canada, yet -- carrying out boxes from Conservative offices while Liberals videotape the event. That's just a terrifically bad smell.

Here's the photo -- worth a look -- over the caption "Elections Canada officer Andre Thouin carries a box as he leaves Conservative party offices in Ottawa April 15, 2008. RCMP officers searched the offices at the request of Elections Canada."

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/415025

Anonymous said...

Yup, the Liberals and elections canada are working together to bring down the CPC. Yup, sure, of course the two top jobs at elections Canada - the chief electoral office and the commissioner - were Conservative appointments, where one worked for Tom Flanigan at the U of C and the other has strong ties of Stephen Harper. Of course these two Harper loyalists have defected to the Liberals. It all makes sense now folks. These two, in conjunction with the vast global left-wing conspiracy and the media are trying to bring down this upstanding government. Keep crying in your cheerios kiddies....just accept what you did was wrong and move along.

paulsstuff said...

Gayle, those are some examples of the same type of in and out financing. It totals in the hundreds of thousands when you add up all ads bought and reimbursments received across all ridings. .

So now why not address the point. The NDP and Liberal's both had no problem with EC in getting their reimbursment, even though they have done the same types of transactions that EC has ruled Conservative's can't do. As Janke pointed out in the case of Chow, either the ad expense should have been charged to her riding, putting her over the limit, or the reimbursment should not have been allowed.

Alberta Girl said...

Gayle - with regards to your " there is no liberal bias at EC" - I found this comment over at Gerry's site (if you want the link check Joanne's post - you will find it there).

"As a former Elections Canada official I can assure you that there is a bias to the Liberal Party in the organization."

Now it was posted under "anonymous" which you probably will poo-poo, but really, Gayle, they would be nuts to post something like that under their real name.

maryT said...

How many are employed at EC. Any chance the new head honchos are trying to clean up the place and this leak was by some underling. Remember it was some hippy part-time guy that leaked Baird's report. No one has accused the head of EC with leaking info. Nothing like trying to discredit your bosses to protect your position.
There is so much more dirt on the liberals that will come out if they try to bring the govt down over this set-up.
When will the video guy get his 15 minutes of fame on MDL or Newman. Or will he try to sell his inside info.

Joe said...

Years ago I used to listen to the BBC over the shortwave radio because of their reputation for fair and balanced reporting. Since shortwave has kind of gone the way of the dodo bird I have access to BBC through my satellite provider. I don't subscribe because the BBC is so biased in its reporting.

The RCMP always had a sterling reputation as a world class police force. A few years ago a friend of mine lost a contract to do work for the RCMP because they were being audited for finacial irregularities.

A few decades ago the PM was a right honorable man. PMJC and PMPM changed that to the extent that if you shook hands with them you checked your fingers to make sure they hadn't stolen one or two.

Elections Canada once had a reputation beyond reproach but since PMJC if not before it has been thoroughly compromised to the point that we all should be concerned about the democracy we live in.

I reside in Edmonton Centre and I remember the elections stolen by our former deputy PM. Boxes of missing ballots suddenly showing up. People registered at their work place or box office or storage yard. I remember how the polling places in places of high office space low residential space had an inordinately high voter turnout and how those polling places went decidedly liberal. I also recall Elections Canada saying "water under the bridge". "Nothing to see here folks move along".

The point is that when the highest office in the land, the PMO, is as corrupt as the PMO was under Chrétien (adscam) the corruption spreads through the whole civil service. Elections Canada is not exempt.

Gayle said...

Paul - I did respond to the point. I noted that the advertising of the liberals was truly local, in that it was only available locally, while the conservative advertising was not, in that it was seen hundreds of miles away from the "local" ridings. I also pointed out there is no allegation the liberals over-spent on their national campaigns, and, finally, I acknowledged the actual amount spent was not relevant.

ebd - I am not sure i get your point. This RCMP testified against the liberals in Gomery, and now his biased for them?

Anonymous said...

As a former official with Elections Canada I can tell you there is no bias towards the liberals in that organization.

Gayle said...

See how easy that is?

Alberta Girl said...

Like I said Gayle - I was sure you would poo poo that comment - and looks like I was right.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous at 03:01:00 PM EDT said:

"As a former official with Elections Canada I can tell you there is no bias towards the liberals in that organization."

As the former boss of that person at Elections Canada, I confirm that statement.

Elections Canada is as pure as the driven snow.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

As a former official with Elections Canada I can tell you there is no bias towards the liberals in that organization.

Thank you, Anonymous. Is there any bias against Conservatives?

EBD said...

He wasn't testifying against anyone, Gayle, he was answering questions, as per the Commission's request.

The point is that under the Liberals various government bureaucracies who were supposedly absolutely separate entities in terms of funding and spending and...uhh, planning, were getting their heads together and dissolving the proper boundaries between them. And of course the partisanship of the money-laundering -- ahhh, the partisanship.

In the Fraser Report titled "Bureaucrats in Uniform" -- that's a good title -- noted that "Senior RCMP such as Chief Superintendent Andre Thouin were quite punctilious regarding proper channels and chain-of-command but, informal contacts such as those between Assistant Commissioner Edmon and Jean Carle or Jean Lafleur aside, they seemed to be willing to allow a political bureaucrat such as Chuck Guite to do what they said, in the words of Chief Superintendent Thouin, was 'not an option.' In short 'political interference' looks to be acceptable so long as someone else did it. In the words of Chief Superintendent Thouin regarding such conduct, 'I did not pass judgment.'"

If you read the report, or just read all of Thouin's testimony at Gomery, in it's context, you'll get my point about the creepiness of having this guy hauling out boxes from Conservative offices, in the capacity of his new job with Elections Canada, while Liberals who -- miraculously -- knew about the raid before EC got there videotaped the proceedings.

Gayle said...

AG - Surely you do not expect me to accept an anonymous comment? Do YOU accept the anonymous comments that contradict your anonymous comment?

Anyone can post one, which is why they cannot be trusted.

OK?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Dan Cook seems to be making fun of all this, but he does have a link to the Robert Fife report I had heard last night.

Kingston said...

Actually Gail, I must debate your contention of local, As the name implies I reside in Kingston, so if the local CPC or the incumbent LPC puts an add on CTV it is shown in the entire broadcast area, which is from just south of Ottawa to the Quebec Border to about 60 miles from TO. The same with newspaper coverage (the whig standard), now in that same area is quite a few ridings no just Kingston and a Thousand Islands. That is now the nature of the beast in broadcasting. As another example, Kingston is in the Ottawa Senators broadcast area on Sportsnet. i.e. no Leaf Games. Broadcast area now determine which areas a political advertisement is product too, not the local MP.

Gayle said...

ebd, here is a different take on your theory:

http://communities.canada.com/MONTREALGAZETTE/blogs/onthehill/archive/2008/04/15/what-goes-around.aspx

Gayle said...

kingston, as I understand it, that is what the CPC argues, and they may win on that point, I do not know.

What I was doing was demonstrating why the CPC did not get a refund while the liberals and NDP did. It is certain that the liberals and NDP were funding local ads. It is debatable whether the CPC were doing so.

In the end, the court will decide.

Kingston said...

Gayle, Yes that is how I understand it too, my question is, how could any candidate advertise local in say Toronto or for that matter in Southern Ontario. I mean if you were running for the school board in your local area and you placed an advertisement in the Toronto Star, I mean their coverage is huge, is it still local.

Anonymous said...

Another thing for you to ponder Gayle is the fact that the parliamentary committee that has been looking at the in and out issue refuses to include evidence of the Liberal and NDP parties practice of doing the same bloody thing.

The Conservatives point is all parties do it, so either all are allowed to or all are disallowed.

Elections Canada cannot favour one over the other and that is what the civil lawsuit is all about.

Gayle said...

There is a distinction, as I have pointed out, between what the liberals and NDP have done and what the CPC have done.

Whether that distinction is sufficient to justify EC's actions is another thing. We can argue about it all day but it is not up to us to decide.

The point is that the distinction is sufficiently great to nullify any suggestion of bias. The actions of the parties are different, and they were treated that way.

As for the committee, another major difference is the fact the CPC used local campaign expenditures to justify an additional 1.2 million dollars over their campaign limit. Last I checked there is no suggestion either the liberals or the NDP used the local campaign funding in this fashion. As I pointed out in the thread below, whether or not the CPC actions violate the EA, they are definately exploiting a loophole in that Act. It is completely appropriate for that to be investigated by the committee, and the liberal and NDP expenditures are not relevant as they did not spend over their cap - at least that is the way I understand it.

Some committee should look at this and determine if there is a loophole that should be closed.

Anonymous said...

Absolute bull Gayle that the other parties expenditures should not be looked at for comparison.

The only "distinction" is that the other two parties are not called "Conservative".

All Elections Canada has done is to buy some time before their officials will be examined in discovery for the civil trial.

Kingston said...

Actually Gail, I have to politely disagree, the fact that one party used the loop hole because they were maxed at the federal campaign level does not in anyway make it acceptable for the other parties to exploit the loophole just because they did not have the funds to take them to the campaign threshold. Now did the EC give the CPC a much closer look because they maxed out, I would say more then likely, you max out everyone of your allowable deductions on you income tax and you can pretty well expect they are going to have a closer look as well, it is the nature of the administrative beast would you not agree.

Gayle said...

The civil case boils down to whether the advertisements were "local". As we have discussed that is debatable.

The potential charges for exceeding campaign expenses also come down to the definition of what is "local" advertising, but this is a different case from the civil case in that it involves potential charges.

The issue of the loophole being exploited to allow a party to spend above the cap only applies to the CPC because they are the only party that spent above the cap. A loophole is not exploited unless there is some advantage to doing so. There is no suggestion the liberals or the NDP used this loophole to spend over the cap. It only becomes a loophole to them if it is the only way they could have "legally" spent more money on their national campaign.

Gabby in QC said...

Hey! here's a link!

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=93776
"Coming clean in 'electoral laundromat'
John Ivison, National Post 
Published: Tuesday, November 13, 2007
....
However, the affidavits make a pretty strong case that if the Conservatives were guilty of operating an "electoral laundromat," as Liberal Dominic LeBlanc has asserted, by passing off national advertising as local campaigns, then the Liberals, NDP and Bloc were also up to their elbows in soap suds. The only difference appears to be that they had their expenses reimbursed by Elections Canada without a quibble.

In one case, the affidavits state that all New Brunswick Liberal candidates, including Mr. LeBlanc, the point-man in attacking the Conservatives over their campaign activities, participated in a regional media buy organized by the national party. "The content of the ads, but for the names of the candidates, is entirely national," the filing states, adding that it appears the invoicing was processed by the national party because it was not listed in Mr. LeBlanc's return. Mr. LeBlanc did not return calls yesterday.

In total, the Conservative filing said that the national Liberal party made about $1.7-million in monetary transfers to its local candidates in the 2006 election and invoiced its local candidates $1.3-million for goods and services provided to them."

Anonymous said...

Excellent link Gabby, thanks.

Anonymous said...

Thanks to Gayle and Kingston for explaining this mess in a way I could finally understand. So...whats the big deal?? If the Conservatives are right then they win. Canadians dont care because they dont understand, and, because its finally sunny and warm outside. If Harper found a loophole then he's smarter then the rest...good for him. Canadians love politicians who can find an edge. Wether any of you like it or not this is news. Its another cut to the Conservative, big deal, when your the guys in power you get cut, and, you can survive a thousand little cuts, so whats this one...number 12? Let it go...its small potatoes. Oh ya..I said it before...Gayle adds alot of zip to this blog. billg

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Gerry Nichols is on MDL right now.

Kingston said...

Actually Gail, I beg to correct you on this, there is advantage to all parties to proceed this way and this is no doubt why the do it i.e. the CPC with their ads, and the LPC with their candidates packages, by doing what the parties do with these transfers they are able to claim a portion of the expense twice, i.e. when the national party HQ claims it as and expense to the local riding assoc, and again when the Local Candidate claims it as an expense when they return the fund. Personally either way, it seems wrong and it is a loop hole that needs closing.

Alberta Girl said...

"Canadians dont care because they dont understand, and, because its finally sunny and warm outside."

Canadians may not care, but I also believe they do not pay much attention to anything other than 30 second sound bytes and Bold headlines.

And when you have videotape of RCMP officers entering the doors of the Conservative party headquarters with the headline RCMP raid Tory offices - that is the mental picture they are left with.

That - in my opinion - was the goal of the Liberal party assisted by the CBC - this is revenge and payback fair and square.

When the perception is given - whether true or not, that the RCMP is investigating the Tories - Canadians certainly will draw the conclusion that they are corrupt.

Gayle and Kingston are explaining from one side, anonymous - there are two sides to every story.

Gayle said...

kingston - if they are double dipping I agree, but I was not aware they were able to claim the expenses twice.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

As a former official with Elections Canada I can tell you there is no bias towards the liberals in that organization.

Oops! It looks like Anonymouse got his/her talking points mixed up at Gerry Nichol's!

Oh gee. I wonder if Gayle agrees with that Anon too?

Kingston said...

Well as I understand it Gayle, that is the benefit of doing it. I a course may of mis-understood when it was explained to me but I do not think I did. It is kind of like when you used to be able to claim gifts of cash given to family members i.e. I give five grand to my daughter, I could right it off because she would have to claim it as income under the report all other income, she then in turn could immediately put it into a RRSP and write it off herself. Why do I have such a devious mind, either way the govt is out taxes on the initial five grand. LOL

PS. if you think any of the parties are going to close this loophole, heck it is not a loophole, it is a tunnel, LMAO, you should be sharing your medication with the rest of us.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Thanks for that Ivison link, Gabby!

Gayle said...

"When the perception is given - whether true or not, that the RCMP is investigating the Tories - Canadians certainly will draw the conclusion that they are corrupt."

Well the liberals, and in particular Ralph Goodale, know that from experience, so I would agree with you there.

It is not fair, but it is hard to feel any sympathy for the cons when their only reaction to the news Goodale was cleared was to demand he apologize to the RCMP.

I would prefer everyone wait to see what happens with this investigation before they claim any organization, be it the CPC, EC, the RCMP or the Liberals are guilty of anything.

Alberta Girl said...

"I would prefer everyone wait to see what happens with this investigation before they claim any organization, be it the CPC, EC, the RCMP or the Liberals are guilty of anything."

Gayle - we FINALLY agree!!!

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Gayle - we FINALLY agree!!!

Amen!

Anonymous said...

C-2: Canada Elections Act (Section 19)

"At present, the Canada Elections Act can be enforced only by employing the criminal justice system. The Act treats all violations as criminal offences, whether they are primarily administrative or regulatory in nature, and there is little room for flexibility or discretion. The Royal Commission on Electoral Reform and Party Financing and the Special Committee on Electoral Reform both believed that a new approach to election law enforcement was needed."

Ooooh lots of room for slimy politics here when you can swing a stick like that!

Technically all our politicians were under "criminal investigation" last year when they filed their returns!

Who knew?

-Kelly

Gabby in QC said...

"Thanks for that Ivison link, Gabby!"

You're welcome, but full disclosure, I was looking for something else and stumbled upon it here:

http://tinyurl.com/6d54zz (freedominion.com)

May said...

I have to agree with Fay on this, I am very concerned. Every time I think maybe we as Canadians are starting to get a handle on the sponsorship and related corruption, some agency or crown corp proves me wrong. Even this week a top Mountie was found in contempt of Parliament. Then there is collaboration between Pablo and the MSM in the ethics committee. Now I am suddenly learning not only of this case, but many cases in the past of EC going 100X over the line (i.e. the blogger in BC). I don't agree with Gerry Nicholas very often but this is one of those rare times. It feels like we are fighting an octopus of corruption with long shadowy tentacles that go further then we can see even now. I keep asking myself, how deep does this rot go? How far does the corruption reach? Will we ever get it all out? Will we ever have a clean slate? A level playing field? A healthy environment for our fragile democracy?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Does anyone know what Ralph Goodale was going on about on MDL about whether Harper was at the 'search'?

Kingston said...

I think they are trying to attach his name personally to the situation Joanne, so as to undermine his personal numbers as compared to Mr. Dion.

Anonymous said...

Not so fast Jo Anne . The discussion on this post led to semantics. I think the best point was made by alberta girl: the fact that most Canadaians don't pay much attention, or care to get the details after the 30 second sound bite is a very important point.
we don't need legal schmegal to understand the agenda behind the whole photo-op yesterday.
There was no need for cops to be there, and no need for camera...but somehow it was 'arranged' and then called a 'raid'.
You know that , the Libs know it , the media knows it, and so does the CPC.
Even gayle knows that.

bluetech

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Kingston, you may be right. It is really underhanded, though. I mean it's contemptible - even for Ralph.

I'm just reviewing the rest of MDL that I recorded earlier. Mike got a Blackberry message later in the program from 'upstairs' and apparently Harper was at a Cabinet meeting - not manning the shredder.

But these guys just blindly throw mud and hope it sticks. It's so disgusting.

BTw, great post here at Sandy's that puts things into perspective.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

the fact that most Canadaians don't pay much attention, or care to get the details after the 30 second sound bite is a very important point.
we don't need legal schmegal to understand the agenda behind the whole photo-op yesterday.


Bluetech, I agree. Gerry Nichols is on Michael Coren right now (busy guy) and he made the same point. He called it 'the political version of a drive-by shooting'.

BTW, is anyone else having problems posting comments tonight?

Alberta Girl said...

Interesting comment from MDL ( i am watching the later version) where he comments on the strange fact that EC went to a Toronto judge to get the search warrant.

Hmmmm...makes my "theory" that I posted at Hunters blog yesterday a possibility?? I will post it below; keep in mind I did it as a joke, but.....

this is my theory of how this went down.


The Liberals and their MSM cohorts are sitting around expressing their frustrations at how none of these scandals seem to be sticking.

"To bad we can't get an RCMP investigation going says one"

"Well" says the guy from Elections Canada "we do have some info about the court case they are sending to us, we could have the RCMP "escort" us over there".

Yes! Yes! Raid! Raid! Raid! chants the crowd.

"But we need a "search warrant"?

"Hey, my brother in law is a judge, he'll give us one, he's angling for a senate seat and this might be just the in he needs once we get back into power"

"We need to make sure that we have cameras there so that Canadians will finally wake up and see that those right wing, knuckledragging Tories are as dirty as they said we were and they should not have voted us out of power"

"So make sure you call these numbers BEFORE you head over to their headquarters to pick up that box"

"We've got them this time!!"

Cheers and fist jabbing ensues!

Scott Reid serves Beer and Popcorn.

Note the following anti-suit statement - (The preceeding is the opinion of the writer only and does not in any way insinuate that any other knuckledragger, including the PMO, held a gun to the writers head or that the writer was in fact in attendance at the Liberal beer-fest)


I wonder.....especially given some of the statements where every challenge is treated as criminal by EC?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Alberta Girl, that was hilarious! You should start your own blog.

I don't think your scenario is totally off-base. I still think it's strange that the CBC had such an early time-stamp on their first story, and then suddenly it changed. I sure wish I had done a screen-capture.

And Mike Duffy said something interesting yesterday, as did Don Martin - Something about the videographer being in the Liberal caucus meeting on Wednesday and getting them all to clap in unison. Were they making an ad? Interesting timing...

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Sorry, s/b Don Newman, not Don Martin.

Christoph said...

As a CPC and Stephen Harper supporter, I must say your post is... something Dale Carnegie would have slapped me for saying.

"The fact that Gerry Nichols who [previously wrote a fundraising 'sales letter' for Stephen Harper critical of Elections Canada] ... actually backed up the Conservative Party yesterday with this post, is probably one of the most telling indicators of where the truth actually lies."

For God's sake. This is your "reasoning", Joanne? This is your level of persuasion?

God help us if you're the best we can muster, which, fortunately you're not.

Anonymous said...

I guess Christoph doesn't know about the 'attitude' Nicholls has for Harper.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

I guess Christoph doesn't know about the 'attitude' Nicholls has for Harper.

Yeah, well. No big deal.

I can't wait for that warrant to be released.

There's little doubt now that the media was alerted to the event. They said as much on MDL, and thought it was somewhat unusual, but wished it had been them rather than their rivals (CBC).

I like this line from a Globe story that just came out:

...Conservative officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, questioned yesterday whether the raid might have been carried out to obtain material being prepared for use in the next election.

And they asked how the Liberals could have arranged to get a videographer with a professional, high-definition, shoulder camera to the hallway outside their headquarters on such short notice.

“It's quite unfortunate that they never videotaped where they hid the $40-million they stole from taxpayers” in the sponsorship scandal, one senior Conservative said...


Heh.

frmgrl said...

Some interesting stuff to read here
http://conservativeinnewbrunswick.blogspot.com/

Anonymous said...

"Conservative officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, questioned yesterday whether the raid might have been carried out to obtain material being prepared for use in the next election." -- This I think is scary and everyone should be concerned. Hopefully Conservatives would be able to verify whether or not any such documents were taken. At this point there clearly are questions about what the search warrant was for. But I think that Elections Canada has compromised itself because of the obvious tip-off to media and Liberals. I am also uncomfortable about a Toronto judge being sought out to sign the warrant -- is that usual? Who was the judge? The "in and out' thing is its own beast and the courts can deal with it. But the "raid" seems very stage managed .
Given some of the very partisan moves by EC (not investigating MacLellan and TV sets, for example) I had at one point heard that there was to be a recount for the recent election in Vancouver. Do we know the status of that?

frmgrl said...

AngryintheGreatWhiteNorth has a very good post up right now. You gotta go there and visit.
http://stevejanke.com/archives/260498.php
Someone good get into some hot water.

maryT said...

Gayle said she can't post to a certain site, and thought it was due to her work computer. So, considering all her posts around BT, and the time involved in all of them, where would one work and get paid to visit all the BT sites.
Notice the time of her posts, during working hours. Either she is cheating her boss of hours, or is being paid to do this. Who would employ someone to do that.
Or she has been banned.

tori said...

you know what i find funny? the comments over at liblogs are all talking about how NOW is the time to go...and that they can get a majority.

no talk about policy. no talk about what they are going to do if they get into power.

there was talk about how some are worried that if they only get a minority that they won't be able to afford 2 back to back elections, so they HAVE to go for the majority.

sigh...

as for this thing with the rcmp/ec...i have no thoughts on the matter yet. previous experience tells me to just wait it out and let more info come out instead of pushing a personal series of events all over the blogosphere...

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Frmgrl, thanks for that link at Steve Janke's. Very interesting.


BTW, does anyone else have trouble posting comments there? Mine never seem to get through.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

I am also uncomfortable about a Toronto judge being sought out to sign the warrant -- is that usual? Who was the judge? The "in and out' thing is its own beast and the courts can deal with it. But the "raid" seems very stage managed .
Given some of the very partisan moves by EC (not investigating MacLellan and TV sets, for example) I had at one point heard that there was to be a recount for the recent election in Vancouver. Do we know the status of that?


All very good questions. I would love to have the answers myself.

Ruth said...

Karen Redmond and Garth Turner are both pictured in the paper this morning complaining about the Cons sending out flyers into other ridings. This story is also up on National Newswatch.
Yet on Kitchener Conservative's blog, it was stated that Liberal flyers from other MP's were in that area. You need to email Ms. Redmond if you got material from another MP.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Thanks, Ruth. I'll watch for that. Usually I draw horns and mustaches on the faces of any Liberal flyers that come in.

I won't deface any more. I'll keep them for evidence. ;)

Alberta Girl said...

"BTW, does anyone else have trouble posting comments there? Mine never seem to get through."

It has something to do with that little box where you claim your email.

If you do that once - don't check it again as it seems that it won't go through. i think you have to do it once though....not sure why (I know he explains it but it doesn't make sense as to what actually happens).

I know that if I check that box, it won't go through, but if I don't it does.

Try it out, Joanne - may be your problem.

Alberta Girl said...

Sooooo Joanne - ignore my last comment - seems like I am NOW having problems there too... not sure now... dang - and I had a good one too. ha ha

After I submitted - I came over here to write my last comment - went back and it was still trying to submit - never did go through and didn't quit trying either.....hmmm

Gayle said...

mary

Perhaps I am self employed.

Anonymous said...

I find this to be a very naive statement from gayle:

"Too bad people here are not prepared to give EC the same benefit of the doubt we all are prepared to give the CPC."

and this:


"Elections Canada is world renowned as an independent agency that sets the example for fair and unbiased elections. "

With so much evidence pointing to the lack of response from EC on the Mclellean issue and the Saskatchewan district discrepancies,(election 2006) and then this overly dramatic photo op at CPC offices it is obvious that EC has a Lib bias and an agenda.
EC had the chance in both those prior circumstances to prove themselves dependable. They didn't, therefore they aren't.
They do not deserve the 'benefit of the doubt' whatever that implies.They deserve to be doubted.
No spin here, just facts.

bluetech

Gayle said...

bluetech - if only your "evidence" were actually evidence.

The McLellan issue was an issue with voter registration, and not with the liberal party.

maryT said...

Gayle, that voter registration fraud was instigated by the liberals. They are the ones who told supporters how it could be done. And if you paid attention you will see that those bldgs etc had a majority of liberal voters. Did you have family in Annie's riding, I did. Do you belong to any non profit org in her riding, I do. Do you have a very close friend who was on the exec, in her riding, I did. Were any of your family etc approached in her riding by liberal enumerators and have it suggested what you could do, I did. Was this info passed on to the conservative candidate or the EC, yes. Did EC reply, NO.
Also, I have to question if the liberal party knew of the impending arrest by the RCMP of a former head Que liberal, had anything to do with trying to get a warrant and raid for Conservative headquarters to deflect attention to the sponsorship scandal. Were the media and conservative cameras there to record the arrest.

Gayle said...

"...that voter registration fraud was instigated by the liberals. They are the ones who told supporters how it could be done."

Link please.

I also know people on the riding executive and they would be very surprised to hear your allegations.

Gayle said...

By the way, about that arrest of the former party official, did you know the Liberal Party is one of his alleged vicitms?

"Mr. Corbeil conspired to defraud the Liberal Party of Canada of a sum exceeding $100,000 by authorizing payment of false invoices."

(From the Globe and Mail article listing the charges).

maryT said...

Sorry gayle, there is no link to what is said by those connected to members of riding associations, or what a kid lets slip in school, or during a shopping trip etc.
If you listened to Newman today you would have seen his panel snicker at the attempt to make liberals victims in this. Fact, he just forgot to send 100,000 of suspect money to the liberal coffers. Saying the liberals wont fly, and this from Neman, Susan Delacort and others.
But I can say that I take pride that I voted and argued against our org contributing to a full page ad for Annie, to be given a donation matching our cost, after the election. I convinced them all to say no.
Gayle,you are never going to convince us that liberals are good.
At one time they were ok, then PET came along and ruined our country.
Dion reminds me of Little Jack Horner who sat in the corner-but he is pulling scandals out of his pie and thinking oh what a good boy am I, until it comes back to bite him.