...A videographer hired by the Liberals was present as the raid was carried out, alongside mainstream media camera crews documenting the incident...
It doesn't sound like they just happened by, does it?
* * * *
From CNEWS - Tories attack Elections Canada over raid.
Now who are you going to believe?
Stephen Taylor - Something isn't right about the RCMP "raid". 'Catherine' in comments says:
National Post - Elections Canada leaked news of RCMP raid, Tories said.
Don Martin - Elections Canada brings out the sledgehammer.
Elections Canada made a media "circus" out of a raid on Conservative party headquarters, inviting an opposition camera crew to observe police officers carrying out the raid, Tory MPs complained Wednesday.
The Liberals laughed off any suggestion that they were tipped off in advance of the raid, which appeared to be continuing Wednesday, saying they sent a videographer to the Tory party offices after seeing the event unfold on a television news network...
..."I do find it odd, when I look at a photograph this morning and I see someone knocking on the door with cameras, with news cameras present," Flaherty said as he left a Conservative caucus meeting on Parliament Hill.
"And to see that there were Liberal party people in the hallway, I find that very strange indeed."
( . . . )
A videographer hired by the Liberals was present as the raid was carried out, alongside numerous mainstream media camera crews documenting the incident.
Now who are you going to believe?
Stephen Taylor - Something isn't right about the RCMP "raid". 'Catherine' in comments says:
Stephen, maybe someone should correct Garth Turner's statement on Mike Duffy live, where he stated the CPC "stole" Canadians tax dollars.Link here. In the same interview, Jason Kenney marvels at how a Liberal party official was there ahead of the RCMP and Elections Canada.
National Post - Elections Canada leaked news of RCMP raid, Tories said.
Don Martin - Elections Canada brings out the sledgehammer.
67 comments:
Off course it was a photo-op, and who tipped off the media and LPoC?
This has everything to do with the Conservatives civil lawsuit against Elections Canada.
"This has everything to do with the Conservatives civil lawsuit against Elections Canada."
Except it doesn't - and repeating it over and over again will not change that.
Except it does Gayle.
Today the EC was supposed to be examined in the civil action by the Conservatives. Because of the "raid" that has been postponed. By carrying out this circus EC has managed to prevent the spotlight from being shone on them. Mission accomplished.
Except reid that you cannot get a warrant for a civil law suit. The only basis for which a warrant may be issued by a justice upon application of the commissioner is for the investigation of an offence under the Elections Act. It is legally impossible for the Commissioner to get a warrant for a civil action. If you do not believe me then go and read the Elections Act.
The lawsuit was launched because EC refused to refund taxpayer money to the CPC for local ad campaigns. It has nothing to do with charges.
The investigation is apparently about overspending during the national campaign - which is an offence under the Act.
Favorite line of the day: "Unlike the Conservatives, we watch the CBC and caught their breaking news about the scandal unfolding in downtown Ottawa." You have to admit Joanne, it is a funny line.
Unless you think all criminal and quasi criminal investigations should be halted any time one of the parties files a lawsuit. If that were the case I think a lot of rapists and murderers would be suing the police or the victims.
BTW Joanne, Kady O'Malley says that she also found out about it from Newsworld and then rushed down to see all the fuss. Reality is much less exciting than conspiracy (and believe me, I know. I love conspiracies)
"Unlike the Conservatives, we watch the CBC and caught their breaking news about the scandal unfolding in downtown Ottawa."
Greg, which report was that one in? I missed it.
Of course it was a setup; this morning on CFRA, Don Martin was going on about how cameras from the CBC were waiting in the hallway for TWO HOURS before EC and the RCMP even showed up.
Gayle. The warrant wasn't FOR the civil suit. The warrant was to help DERAIL the civil suit.
EC abused it's authority to get the warrant. And while it does take a judge to issue one, the party requesting a warrant doesn't have to show any kind of proof. That's typically what a warrant is for... to find proof. All they have to do is say to a judge "we need a warant to look for documents we believe haven't been turned over to us." The judge then gives them the warrant whether that statement is true or not because they don't have to offer any proof.
Hence, the warrant really does have everything to do with the civil case. It's purpose is to interfere with it. Mission accomplished.
LPC HQ is just down the street from Conservative HQ and when the story broke LPC staff (which includes professional photographers and videographers) could have been there is less than 5 minutes.
If you've ever walked into the head quarters of a political party or the office of ministerial staff, there are televisions in every office and in the hallways. Its evident they could be there really quickly.
Keep your tin foil hat on though.
Don Martin was going on about how cameras from the CBC were waiting in the hallway for TWO HOURS before EC and the RCMP even showed up.
Well, that could explain why the timestamp on CBC's original story was so early - way before the Canadian Press story was posted...
And then suddenly it changed. Poof!
Seems the Raid,... Errr Tea Party,... Errrr Photo Op, hosted by Stephen Harper at the CPC HQ is still going on today. Man that must be some good tea Stevie is serving or what?
RCMP, elections officials still inside Tory headquarters
Last Updated: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 | 2:30 PM ET Comments19Recommend44
CBC News
RCMP officers and Elections Canada officials are continuing their search for documents inside Conservative Party headquarters in Ottawa a day after raiding the party's offices, CBC News has learned.
Elections Canada is pursuing an investigation into alleged spending irregularities by the party in the last federal election.
CBC News first reported RCMP officers were seen Tuesday in the 12th-floor party offices and the 17th-floor mailroom.
The CBC's James Fitz-Morris was outside Conservative headquarters on Wednesday as the officials emerged with several boxes of documents.
The door to the party headquarters is now under guard after dozens of media cameras — as well as a Liberal research team — descended upon the offices to capture Tuesday's raid.
The Conservatives are accusing Elections Canada of creating a media "circus" out of the raid of their offices, which they have linked to a civil lawsuit brought by the party against Elections Canada.
Who is this Gayle that is blogging that seems to know all the particulars of the warrants issued by Election Canada? Are some bloggers being fed more information from Elections Canada than others? What else is elecions Canada telling her? What is going on here. Are some Canadians more equal than others?
Gayle's name is all over Blogging Tories,she alludes to know way more than anyone else.
"And while it does take a judge to issue one, the party requesting a warrant doesn't have to show any kind of proof. That's typically what a warrant is for... to find proof. All they have to do is say to a judge "we need a warant to look for documents we believe haven't been turned over to us."
Nope.
There is a little SCC case called Hunter and Southam that puts an end to this notion. No one can obtain a warrant simply by asking for one. Granting a warrant application without evidence is illegal.
You need reasonable and probable grounds to obtain a warrant. Evidence must be shown to establish those grounds. Usually that evidence is based on a sworn affidavit. Anyone who swears a false affidavit is guilty of perjury, and will go to jail.
It is obvious that this little fantasy of yours that the search was a fishing expedition by EC is based on nothing more than your belief/desire that it is true. If you had some facts to back it up I might be persuaded.
Wow!!! What is Gayle's connection to Election's Canada?
"Who is this Gayle that is blogging that seems to know all the particulars of the warrants issued by Election Canada?"
I could be a top secret spy paid by Elections Canada to come onto BT blogs and spout "talking points" which can be found on their website.
Or, I could be someone who knows something about the law as it relates to search warrants. If you want to read up on them yourself you can start with section 487 of the Criminal Code where it states a justice may grant a warrant if there are reasonable grounds to believe evidence will be found in a particular location. The Elections Act gives the Commissioner the authority to seek a warrant pursuant to this section.
I just want to know when the Liberals hired their videographer, and for what reason?
Get real Gayle. Sure you can't say to a judge "give me a warrant just because." All EC has to do is say this to the judge:
"We believe document A exists. We have requested the CPC turn over document A. They have failed to turn over document A. We need a warrant to search their offices for document A."
Try proving that was a false statment. It's impossible because they said they "believe" the document exists. Whether they really do or not doesn't matter. You can't prove what someone else believes. So whether it does or doesn't exist is irrelevant.
Joanne - does that mean you are not going to read the Hunter and Southam case? :)
According to Gayle's logic we should be expecting a few perjury charges to be leveled at some Elections Canada Officials ... perhaps some LIberal part hacks too!
When it comes to perjury and fraud .... we KNOW where the story starts and ends.
I just want to know when the Liberals hired their videographer, and for what reason?
Joanne, it is doesn't matter a rodent's left buttock. The EC or the RCMP could have tipped the press and the liberals to "raid", or the press could have tip the liberals to raid. Still doesn't matter. Nothing illegal about it, because it is news.
You're barking up a tree at a red herring ;-) But that is just my opinion.
reid - you are wrong.
Simple belief is not enough. It will never be enough. If there is no basis for that belief no warrant may be granted. Section 487 explicitly states there must be "reasonable grounds" to believe anything. In order to establish reasonable grounds the party applying for the warrant must present evidence. Otherwise every cop would be able to get a warrant to search any place simply by telling the justice he believes something to be true. There would be warrants flying around all over the place.
The Commissioner would have had to present evidence as a basis of this belief.
I just want to know when the Liberals hired their videographer, and for what reason?
The Liberals have video/photo/web people on staff who work out of party HQ, much like the NDP and Conservatives do to.
ommag - only if they lied. You are to prove they did.
The fact you really, really want it to be true is not proof.
Lay off Gayle. She adds some zip to the conversation. Nothing wrong with a polite opposing view, besides, is there a Con out there who can with a strait face tell me that Pierre Poliviere and John Baird would not have eaten the Liberals alive if the roles were reversed?? Didnt think so. Its all optics, and, it doesnt look good for the Conservatives, I'm just not sure the targeted 10% of undecided's really care much, which, to change the arguement is all that matters, if the Libs want a June election over a 20 year old ex PM scandal, an 18 year old remark from a drunk guy and a petty fight over some election rule that no one can clearly describe then, go for it. Economy is chugging along, jobless rates are steady so if thats the fight they want why would anyone disagree. billg
Elections Canada has already ruled a violation took place, hence getting a search warrant would not be a problem.
The Conservative Party has chellenged that ruling in court, has filed affadavits showing that EC is not applying the same rule to the other parties as has been applied to them.
Do a search on Stephen Taylor's blog and you will see part of the notice of claim filed against EC in the ruling, as well as evidence put forward in the case showing that the Liberal's and NDP both used the same type of "in and out scheme" in the 2006 and previous elections.
As Peter Van Lowen pointed out in question period again today, either the rule applies to all parties equally or applies to none. Election Canada has tried to give the opposition parties an advantage in election financing with their decision.
Funniest thing was Garth Turner today saying Conservative's have been caught stealing taxpayer money. Sorry Garthy, you are a little confused, that would be the Liberal Party, the one you are now a member of.
Funniest thing was Garth Turner today saying Conservative's have been caught stealing taxpayer money. Sorry Garthy, you are a little confused, that would be the Liberal Party, the one you are now a member of.
I heard that too.
I hope he has a good lawyer. He didn't use the word 'alleged'.
"Elections Canada has already ruled a violation took place, hence getting a search warrant would not be a problem."
No
They do not have the authority to "rule" anything. They have refused to provide the CPC the tax dollars to which the CPC believes it is entitled.
Only a judge may rule if the Elections Act was violated.
Again - read the Act if you do not believe me.
Sorry - that should read only a judge may rule if an offence under the EA has been committed.
Gayle, you are a tireless warrior. I don't know why you bother.
How long before any charge will be laid?
Every one is long on conjecture but woefully short on facts.
The CPC has been both convicted and absolved by the different courts of opinion.
Until this goes to a real Court with real evidence I will allow that the CPC is innocent until proven guilty.
The optics of this are bad, but if Liberals think,
as Gayle has said (over at Liblogs, where people are not treated with the respect she enjoys here),
that this puts Cons on a level playing field with Libs
(Adscam = In&Out)
go for it Libs.
May as well, I see yet another ethic group is threatening to dump the Libs if they don't vote against the immigration bill.
Poor Dion and the Liberals, everyone is bullying them.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080416/immigration_bill_protest_080416/20080416?hub=QPeriod
Is this a continuation of the battle of 2001 Harper vs. Elections Canada ?
http://gerrynicholls.blogspot.com/2008/04/elections-canada-bullies.html
I have been reading a little about this so-called "scandal." Sounds like EC is favoring Libs over the same practice and they don't like it that the Cons are pushing back. To this average Joe, it looks like just another salvo from the "independent" civil service against the interlopers.
One of the people from Elections Canada in the "raid is one Andre Thouin, testified at Gomery, didn't seem to remember much.
This smells of Lie-beral smear to be utilized in a campaign.
Elections Canada knows that they are going to lose the court case so they go and do this.
PLanned photo-op, for damn sure, but this is just as surely going to come back and bite the Lie-berals, it will expose them yet again for what they are, some semblance of pond scum.
Check out this piece by Don Martin, just posted sometime today - Elections Canada brings out the sledgehammer:
It's all a bit of a headscratcher because the search warrant is an invasion tactic of last resort when polite requests and increasingly angry demands to hand over evidence have been rebuffed by the party under investigation.
The Conservatives insist nobody from Elections Canada has bothered to contact the party to request any documents for the past three months.
The real interesting part, which has a lot of Conservative MPs in a lather, is how two camera crews magically surfaced to stake out both floors rented by the Conservative party within minutes of the search warrant being executed.
The RCMP cruisers were unmarked and the police scanner didn't broadcast the "visit", so unless CBC journalists are telepathic, the only plausible explanation is that they were tipped by Elections Canada.
And being dedicated Newsworld watchers, gleeful Liberals armed with their own cameras were scrambled to record the "visitation" within minutes of the news being broadcast.
Yawn...just more manufactured scandels. Let the courts decide. And I am sure the conservatives had a few lawyers look over this before they did it.
Cool story over at OS, about the Grits tories hockey game.
http://www.officiallyscrewed.com/blog/?p=919
I think the wheels are starting to come off, Don Martin and his stmt the crews were waiting 2 hours, Garth saying taxpayers money. How long before the videoguy will get his 15 minutes of fame exposing his part. Too many were in on this set up for it to remain secret for long. The libs asking questions yesterday, barely hours after the event, wonder who fed them the questions.
Noticed today that Dion was careful in his choice of words. Is this payback for the libel suit against the liberal party.
If this is about financing during the last election why were they in the mail room. That would only have info current, not from 2006.
They better not have taken any thing post Jan 2006. Wonder when PMSH will spring the trap and catch them all. Will Garth apologize for his lie in the HofC today, or be asked to resign. Remember, before being elected as PM, the conservatives did not have access to taxpayers money. Only the liberals did and we know how they handled it, theft, corruption, sponsorship etc.
"Except it doesn't - and repeating it over and over again will not change that."
Gayle- how do you know?????
Dion was interviewed on Newman. He was asked how he will vote against the budget. Dion said against.
Newman said, do you mean that most of the caucus will stay away, and only a few will vote against?
Dion just grinned and said, we'll vote against.
Newman asked if there wasn't some logical inconsistency with saying you'll vote against, but then not having enough of your caucus present to bring down the government?
Dion said he needs to pick 'a good time' to bring down this 'bad government'.
Even Newman's having trouble playing the game, it would seem.
"You are to prove they did."
Baloney .... partisan LIberals slander and smear the CPC and the Government without ONE damned shred of proof every day .... MSM dinks like Fife ditto and they like to include conservative supporters in their unmitigated BS.
Time and time again the controversy of the moment evaporates as the FACTS come to light only to be replayed on another day under another pretext.
Sauce for the goose sister!
Bang your drum all you want it still doesn't make you right either.
Still trying to find out who the judge was that signed the search warrant, and when it was requested and given. Who requested it, I want to know who at election canada did this. Maybe it was some underling, pretending to be the head honcho.
Why had no media shown any evidence a search warrant was delivered. Who was it served upon, some secretary they threatened or who. Lots of newsteams but little information.
I also want to know what is involved in serving a warrant, can they just come and take anything, do they have to list what they take, do they have to return things. Waiting for a raid on liberal mps and their headquarters to get evidence in the libel suit against them. Maybe they would find the money trail from the sponsorship scam.
"Gayle- how do you know?????"
Rather than repeating myself, please review my responses to reid. There is a difference between a civil action and a warrant to investigate a quasi-criminal action. The warrant only applies to the latter, and may only be obtained upon evidence being shown. It is completely impossible for EC to have obtained a warrant solely for the purpose of the lawsuit. That is how I know.
ommag - I am talking about charging someone with a criminal offence. For that you need evidence, not opinion.
mary - you must be getting nauseus with all that spinning. Has it ever occurred to you that the facts speak for themselves? I know they are not presenting the CPC very well right now, but sometimes you have to take it on the chin.
You will not see the warrant. The CPC will. If there is anything wrong with the warrant they will challenge. Rest assured they will fight for their rights.
Joanne, completely off topic but interesting. The US has issued a travel advisory against travelling to Mexico.
Cool story over at OS, about the Grits tories hockey game
I just checked that out. What a great story!
This episode is going to go over as good as the "guns and soldiers in the streets, in Canada" thing.
Liberals are idiots.
Gayle you are right, for once, the facts will speak for themselves and the CPC party will be vindicated and your beloved dion will again be made the fool, along with the media. Notice how the media have left/lost all the stories re other attempted smears. Guess they want us to forget how biased they are.
Maybe they cried wolf once to often and nobody believes them anymore.
mary - if you had bothered to read my posts today and yesterday you would know I have said we know nothing until when, and if, charges are laid and proven in a court of law.
And he is not my beloved Dion. Unlike you, I do not worship the leader of any political party, and I already have a husband.
Did elections canada storm the Liberal party headquarters during adscam?
You know, that little teeny itsy bitsy problem of funneling taxpayer dollars illegally to the Liberal party?
No. They reserve that for heinous acts of internal accounting issues.
When their done by Conservatives.
Gotta love the legacy of decades of Liberal appointments at Elections Canada.
Garth Turner was on Mike Duffy Live tonight and was gloating a BIT too much for my liking. He has a lot to gain and nothing to lose when it comes to information he had when he was a CPC candidate.
Now his secretary has posted on his blog. "On some levels, and as I watched Garth Turner, our MP for Halton rise in the House this afternoon , it felt at last, like we were finally celebrating a long overdue victory. The money laundry piece is finally out of the bag.
This is an issue I have agonized over for a long time. And for any of you who have ever been involved in a campaign, you know what I mean."
The Sentinal has more information and a link to see the footage from Mike Duffy Live.
So now it's staged "gotcha" politics. Liberals are getting very desperate.
An election now, please! Dion on the campaign trail should be good for extended laughs and blooper reels. Think Paul Martin was funny to watch squirm?
Liberals and their supporters continue to assume governing is their right. Very arrogant and entitled. We're supposed to have successive Liberal governments in perpetuity, right Liberal supporters?
Getting money "back" that was not lawfully spent IS stealing from Canadian tax payers.
And it's not very odd that Liberals would happen to own video cameras, or have photographers in their staff. Ooh, big shock.
Getting money "back" that was not lawfully spent IS stealing from Canadian tax payers.
Do you have proof?
And it's not very odd that Liberals would happen to own video cameras, or have photographers in their staff.
Some reports have it that the Liberal's photographer was there as the event was going down!
Thanks, Sentinel. Saskboy should read your post. Link here.
And Saskboy, if you watch the video on Sentinel's site, you'll hear Jason Kenney ask why a Liberal party staffer was there before the RCMP showed up???!!!
Thank you Joanne for all the good debate on this subject and all the weekly scandels as they come along.
We only get one-sided views from the MSM and it's good to dig out other views, and maybe the truth. Keep up the good work.
Thanks, Ruth. I appreciate that.
It's the debate and comments from folks like yourself that keep me going.
Yes, and even you, Gayle. ;)
Hi Kingston:
Caught your question on the other thread re CBC female anchor, 6 p.m. broadcast news, Apr.15th, stating that Elections Canada expects to lose to the Tory lawsuit. Can you retrieve the broadcast at the CBC site?
Question for you. What's the name of the body armour that can insulate against IEDs as reported that an American soldier was injury free after an IED incident. Do our Canadian soldiers have access to that model. Looking for the name of the model?
Anna
"...you'll hear Jason Kenney ask why a Liberal party staffer was there before the RCMP showed up???!!!"
Was Jason Kenny there? Because all the reports from the people who were there (the media) say that the liberals showed up after the raid was first broadcast on CBC. Perhaps Mr. Kenny can bring a conservative staffer forward who would be prepared to swear an affidavit that the liberals were there first. Or not...
The cons also asked why the Cadman tape was dubbed, though they have never offered any evidence it was (you know, like Harper telling Canadians what he really said rather than what was heard on the tape). This type of deflection is not new to them.
"Do you have proof?"
Saskboy is referring ot the fact the CPC applied for tax dollars as a refund for local campaign expenses (that would be about a million tax dollars, by the way). That is the money they are suing for.
So you tell me, whether or not it is "legal", are you OK with the fact the CPC uses a loophole to claim a million tax dollars for their personal use? Because whether or not it is "lawful", you must admit that it would only be so because the CPC were able to exploit a loophole.
If the liberals did that you would be up in arms.
Saskboy is referring ot the fact the CPC applied for tax dollars as a refund for local campaign expenses (that would be about a million tax dollars, by the way). That is the money they are suing for.
So do they actually have the money, Gayle, or are they suing EC for it?
The security tapes appear to show everyone there waiting before the raid took place. Funny what those security cameras catch.
Who is the liberal video guy. Is he in their office all day just in case another scam comes up. Why is the warrant still sealed. What were they looking for in the mail room, unless they wanted to get the files etc that the conservatives had ready to mail to EC. If the warrant is still sealed, how do those going thru the files know what they are looking for. Who signed the warrant. Gayle and others can protest all they want, this was a set up from the getgo to try to save the EC guys from being found guilty in Court. Funny how so many examples of liberal campaign hankypanky is coming out. Think landslide Annie, tv sets and others. How many ridings have ever had 100% turnout, let alone 105% turnout.
The security tapes appear to show everyone there waiting before the raid took place.
Good point, Mary T.
Who is the liberal video guy. Is he in their office all day just in case another scam comes up.
Exactly what I was wondering. This is just way too convenient to be believable.
Oh, they just 'happened' to be watching Newsworld, and just 'happened' to have a videographer ready to go...
Joanne - they do not have it. They are suing for it.
Apparently all party headquarters have all their TV's set to the various news channels so that they can prepare for any new scoop that comes up, which you have to admit makes sense.
The CBC were there before the raid took place. They were on the news. The liberals saw that and then came over. What is so hard to believe about that?
May I also point out that the RCMP were involved in this raid, and have a history of leaking these types of raids to the media. Why are you focussed on EC as the leak when it is far more likely the leak came from the RCMP? After all, they are the agency with the track record.
LOL...I can think of 1 million $$$ Reasons why EC might have tipped off the media
Gayle..."The cons also asked why the Cadman tape was dubbed, though they have never offered any evidence it was (you know, like Harper telling Canadians what he really said rather than what was heard on the tape). This type of deflection is not new to them."
Um, if you actually ever listened to it you can clearly hear the cut mid conversation and then the conversation starting again mid sentence...by definition that's an edit which some people might, in simple human error, refer to as a dub... Unfortunately not all public officials are linguistic experts or recording and semantic experts... look to the LPC par-tay if you need-did anys publics oars in-ter-nation-al examples...
Just a few hours ago the RCMP arrested and charged a quebec liberal for actions during sponsorship. Notice they did not have all the media there are the arrest. If they were the tippers, why not. This time there is a liberal under arrest and charged. In the pre-emptive raid (to cover this one up) the RCMP assisted, and no one was arrested or charged. I have to wonder if EC and the liberals got their timing mixed up and were a few days early in their raid.
Oh, and Gayle, the sponsorship scandal investigation is still on going. Didn't the PM warn the opposition about power to call such things. More charges will be laid according to the RCMP against other liberals.
Liberals, the gift that just keeps giving.
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