Wednesday, October 17, 2007

Checkmate - Final Update

9:30 P.M. - Don Martin - No retreat with honour for Dion. (Harper's government a majority in all but name.)

4:30 P.M. -
Dion supports throne speech - Star.

3:50 P.M.
- Dion is speaking in the House now. Globe has this report disclosing a face-saving plan. It's Jack's move now.

* * * *

11:30 A.M. - Breaking news from Newstalk 570 - Liberal insiders have advised that Dion will support the Throne Speech!

National Newswatch - Liberals to bite the bullet on throne speech:

National Newswatch has learned that the buzz circulating among Liberal insiders this hour on Parliament Hill indicates the Liberal Party will not defeat the government on the throne speech.

Star
- Dion Won't Force Vote: MP's

* * * *

Here is the big question - What will Stephane Dion's next move be?

First of all we need to find him. Apparently he's holed away somewhere pondering his options and will let us know around 3 p.m. this afternoon. Iggy doesn't see a 'poison pill' hidden in the throne speech. He complains of ambiguity, but hello - it's a throne speech.

I'm listening to Ralph Goodale on Canada AM telling us that Canadians don't want an election right now, and that the Liberals will have to carefully study their options and do the responsible thing. I hear that as code for a lot of Liberal backbenchers suddenly catching the Parliament flu.

I started nosing around Liblogs to see what advice they were giving their fearless leader, and the prevailing mood seems to be that an election is inevitable. Some would appear to want it sooner than later. (Warning - very gross pic at Liblogs of a diseased mouth. Not good breakfast fare.)

Don Martin seems to be saying that Dion has little choice but to oppose the Throne speech or else risk losing his credibility altogether:

If there's an election sooner, at least the Liberals can argue they took a principled stand on key issues against a prime minister who was trying to bully his agenda through Parliament.

If they force an election later, after regular bouts of white-flagged capitulation, people will see them as timid and perhaps overcome their fears of the Conservatives as majority rulers.


I would not want to be in Stephane Dion's shoes today.

69 comments:

Ian in NS said...

When Liberals start trotting out the "Canadians don't want an election" line, the unspoken end of the sentence is, "because we'll get our butts kicked." It was true when PMPM used it, and it's true now.

Lycan Stark said...

I would not want to be in Stephane Dion's shoes today.

You know, everyday someone says that as if it is the worst day Dion has had yet as Liberal leader. Then something else happens again the next day, and its worse than the day before.

You know, it wasn't too long ago that many Liberals sarcastically "thanked" Layton and the NDP for having a hand in defeating their minority Government and installing Harper and the Tories.

What delcious irony it is that Layton and the NDP are now berating the Liberals for helping to keep the same Government in power that they blamed the NDP for helping come to power in the first place. Interesting that we don't see too many Liberals shooting their mouth off about that now.

And what leadership we saw yesterday! Dion flees while Iggy stays behind and speaks to Don Martin and Mike Duffy extensively.

Anonymous said...

And it wasn't that long ago that Dion was saying that the Liberals have to "get back to power as soon as possible". This dithering must be what he meant by "as soon as possible".

Anonymous said...

Dion has to have an election now. This is his one and only opportunity to run as leader of the party, because if he doesn't he'll probably be out by Christmas.

Anonymous said...

Montreal Gazette - After MP Denis Coderre, a savvy veteran political organizer turned him down, Dion reached past his dozen Quebec MPs and into the Senate to name Celine Hervieux-Payette, one of the few caucus members who supported his leadership bid, as his new Quebec lieutenant.

However, her Senate colleague, Liberal party president Marie Poulin, was nowhere to be found on Tuesday.

While her office refused to comment, confirming only she was not going to be present for the reading of the speech from the throne, sources said Poulin is vacationing in Bermuda.


The reading of the Throne Speech and the very real possiblity of the Government falling is the perfect time for a new Party President to continue her vacation in Bermuda.

More examples of leadership, Liberal style, lol!

Dave Hodson said...

I've never heard anybody try to tell Canadians "What Canadians Want" or "What Canadians Don't Want" more than Ralph Goodale. He can't get through a speech without using that arrogant line.

Funny, I would have thought that the last election should have told him that it is Liberals that Canadians don't want.

That guy really needs to come up with a new line. Perhaps something less arrogant, and people will be able to stomach listening to him.

Anonymous said...

Poor Ralphy indeed...One thing, he's faithful to his boss to 'the end' it seems.
Goodale for Liberal leader! ;-)

Dijon almost has no choice but to pull the plug today...If he waits too long (By voting down pieces of legislations in the next few weeks for example)that could mean an election during Christmas shopping or afterwards, during a Florida vacation = Mad, Mad, Mad Canadians!

Pull the plug now Puffhane, or face and forever be part of Canadian history: 'The first leader of the official opposition to let a Conservative MINORITY government rule like a MAJORITY by defacto'
OUCH!!!...The ultimate in humiliation...And to the arrogant, 'Natural governing party': I GLEE IN DELIGHT!!!

The right honourable Stephen Harper is pure, uncorrupt, no radical/no nonsense, elected from the grassroots, political GENIUS!!!

And this is one PROUD to be CANADIAN right now.

Lord Omar said...

What will Stephane Dion's next move be?

On the one hand you have Harper clamouring for an election sooner rather than later and I feel Dion should not hand it to him on a silver platter. He would then concern himself with the optics of that decision down the road. On the other hand I am not absolutely against going to the polls now. With Danny Williams poised to deliver a plethora of Liberals to the HoC and a potential for the three Conservative seats in Nova Scotia to be reduced to one (perhaps there are modest gains in New Brunswick, but PEI is dead to him), there are many dangers for Harper if he doesn't make the inroads he needs in Ontario and Quebec. The Conservatives returned to power with a minority is certainly not what Harper craves. It is a high-stakes game of poker with no crystal clear outcomes to be sure.

Anonymous said...

Lord Omar, nervous?...Nice spin there me Lord.

The Maritimes are a blipon the radar...Quebec is pro Harper and will be that much more today with the Provincial jurisdictions issues...Quebec is the pretty much the tipping point for a majority. Libs are toast in Qc.

Ontario, if it follows tradition, now that it has elected McWeasel's Fibs, will give Harper more seats...Even the 416-905 corridor will surprize.

OMMAG said...

What Dion does or says is irrelevant.
He is toast.

The lefty parties are accusing our government of "Acting" like a majority.
The response ... we are acting like a GOVERNMENT.

Canadian media are fixated on public sentiment on wanting an election ... still believing that all governments act like the liberals.
It's only the media that are "Clamoring" for anything at this point.

Dave Hodson said...

I'm getting dizzy just watching the Libs spin lately.

With every disaster that finds Dion, we see another story spinning from the Big Red Machine, which I'm thinking is needing some oil badly from spinning so fast and so long.

x2para said...

Dave Hodson said...
I've never heard anybody try to tell Canadians "What Canadians Want" or "What Canadians Don't Want" more than Ralph Goodale

have you ever heard wacky Jack Layton? that arrogant, egotistical ass is forever telling me what I want and don't want

Anonymous said...

The media have continued to play the role of manipulaters as they could with Martin.They still think they get to call the shots.Last nights continual prodding was tiresome.

I'm picturing Dion duct taped to a chair last night with his advisors drilling into him."THE POLLS...THE POLLS".
Puffin Magic.

Let's get the focus off the Libs shall we?
Lower taxes, a vision for Canada, and law and order.
I also really appreciated that the CPC MP's were not facing the media last night. Call it control from the top if you want, but it works.

bluetech

Anonymous said...

TangoJuliette sez:

I see this all coming out as a musical in a few years.

" S T E F F I ' S C H O I C E "

Not only is this innocent nebbish toast, he's hacked and salted away by the Lib BigBoys's Club in the Back Room. Steffi is the punching bag, set up for the Cons, by the Libs.

Steffi rarely get to talk to h'english media, cause he still can't handle un-scripted and highly nuanced interaction in h'english. Hope Harper is better at this sort of stuff in French.

In spite of being fronted for in media scrums, by Regina Ralffie and Da-Count Mikey, still, ya just gotta love Steffi though, dontcha? : "Canada does not want a turd h'election h'in t'ree h'and a 'aff year."

Go play with your dog, mon p'tit chou!

But first-- let's just tie this pork-chop round your neck so you'll at least get to feel like the great white beast loves you. At least, just a little bitty bit.eh?

tj

t.e.&o.e.

liberal supporter said...

I'm getting dizzy just watching the Libs spin lately.

Everything is spin, isn't it? Look right here, they're just about peeing in their pants to egg the Opposition on to topple the government. So concerned about the credibility of the party you oppose anyway? Hahaha!

But Steve chickened out. I suspect we'll pass the ceremonial Throne Speech. There's plenty we can work together on. All those law and order bills that were basically passed, except the CPC insisted on blocking them for spin purposes, since other bills were still in debate.

Unless of course, your people are not really acting in good faith and just want to engineer an election.


Let's get the focus off the Libs shall we?

Wow, it took you guys 13 comments to figure it out. Funny how "Liberal woes" just about pushed the setpiece Throne Speech out of the headlines, he? Just keep spelling the names right, doesn't matter what the headlines say, really.

Lord Omar said...

Nice spin there me Lord.

Trust me, I am not attempting to spin anything.
In my humble opinion anyone who feels that their political choice is on the verge of a "checkmate" here, then I would submit they are the ones presenting the grand spin. Either that or they are delusional.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

All those law and order bills that were basically passed, except the CPC insisted on blocking them for spin purposes, since other bills were still in debate.

L.S. I am so tired of you saying that! It's been held up in the Senate!!


In my humble opinion anyone who feels that their political choice is on the verge of a "checkmate" here, then I would submit they are the ones presenting the grand spin. Either that or they are delusional.

So, I guess you're referring to me. I am merely suggesting that Dion's options are a matter of 'bad' or 'worse'. I look forward to his next move.

Anne said...

Why is it that the Lib's are blaming us for their poor decisions. I resent being blamed "Canadians don't want another election - its THEIR fault - so we will denouce our principles and support this bad throne speech" No, I think its more that the Liberals don't want to be humilitated in an election. But nooooo.... someone OTHER than the party has to take the blame for their decisions.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Anne, when you think about it, it's really the action of the other two opposition parties that is forcing Dion's hand. So the Grits should blame Layton & Duceppe.

GDW said...

Dion's next move is probably going to be to declare that after "listening to Canadians," he's decided that it's his civic duty to let the Throne Speech pass because "we" don't want an election.

liberal supporter said...

I resent being blamed "Canadians don't want another election - its THEIR fault - so we will denouce our principles and support this bad throne speech"

Resent all you want. Put on the full faux outrage that you are somehow being "blamed". If Canadians wanted an election, don't you think the polls would reflect a clear choice?

Having the throne speech at 6:30 at night is something new. So is claiming that voting for a ceremonial speech is "denouncing principles". Sheesh! It's ceremonial.

I guess I am just too conservative to keep up with all these re-definitions that flow from the CPC.

Don't you guys want to make things work? Get things done? Work together?

If not, you acting in bad faith.

Anonymous said...

Screw it...let's have an election!!!

If Canadians can't see what a solid PM they have in Mr. Harper then the same old adage applies...You get the government you deserve

Enough of the spinning...let's get it on!!!

Or...let the man govern.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Or...let the man govern..

What I'm still not clear on is how Harper would get around the issue of the obstructionist, Liberal-dominated, mostly-unelected Senate holding up legislation that has been passed by the members of Parliament that have actually been elected.

Calgary Junkie said...

What should Dion do ?

When in doubt, refer to Machiavelli:

There is no avoiding war; it can only be postponed to the advantage of others.

The election can't be avoided by Dion. So he should go now.

If still in doubt, refer to my #1 rule when playing any war game (chess, backgammon, go):

Ask yourself what your opponent wants you to do. Then do the opposite.

Harper is sincere, he wants to keep governing. Layton needs more time to build on his Outremont success. Duceppe, I can't read his true intentions.

Therefore, two more reasons for Dion to pull the plug now.

Anonymous said...

I want an election. Halton needs a representative.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

It sounds like the Liberal caucus is desperately trying to talk Dion out of voting against the Throne speech.

Garth Turner wants an election though.

Anne said...

Liberal Supporter, I said nothing about being 'outraged', faux or otherwise. I said I resent the implication, not that I am angered or indignant.

Anonymous said...

"Don't you guys want to make things work? Get things done? Work together?
If not, you acting in bad faith."
L.S.

Or, the reader's Digest version:
"Uncle!, Uncle!, Help!, Mayday!

Here's to you LS:

HaHaHaHaHaHa!

(Sound familiar?)

liberal supporter said...

Liberal Supporter, I said nothing about being 'outraged', faux or otherwise. I said I resent the implication, not that I am angered or indignant.

Of course you said nothing about being outraged, because you are not. Just faux outrage like above. But your resentment is misplaced, being based on your projection that Canadians are somehow being "blamed". They are not.

liberal supporter said...

"Don't you guys want to make things work? Get things done? Work together?
If not, you acting in bad faith."
L.S.

Or, the reader's Digest version:
"Uncle!, Uncle!, Help!, Mayday!

Here's to you LS:

HaHaHaHaHaHa!

(Sound familiar?)


As expected, only sneers and jeers from you guys. And you wonder why Canadians don't trust you?

Fortunately you do not speak for your party. Is it also acting in bad faith, as you are?

By the way, thank you for validating that when I laugh at you, it really does bug you. It sits in your craw, festering until you finally have to vomit it out in a comment.

Hahahaha!

Anonymous said...

"As expected, only sneers and jeers from you guys. And you wonder why Canadians don't trust you?"
LS

What, you going to start to cry now?
If I were you I would abandon the SS Librano, like Cherniak just did.
Here's throwing a BLUE buoy at you...See we're not that bad, we do take prisoners. We're even willing to rehabilitate them.

HaHaHaHaHaHa!

liberal supporter said...

What, you going to start to cry now?

You guys really need new material. I am in tears though. I simply cannot stop laughing at your fatuous comments!

If I were you I would abandon the SS Librano, like Cherniak just did.

You're referring to Jason Cherniak the blogger, right? Looks like he is mainly concerned that bloggers are still viewed by the media as mere porn stars. Interesting that you would spin it as "abandoning". Do you now think he will not vote for the Liberals in the next federal election?

Here's throwing a BLUE buoy at you...See we're not that bad, we do take prisoners. We're even willing to rehabilitate them.

You'll never take me alive! Your torturers can make me say anything they want, but once free of them there will be no lasting change. They cannot silence me without killing me. I will not love Big Brother.


HaHaHaHaHaHa!

It's spelt Hahahahahahaha.

Hahahahahahaha!

Lord Omar said...

HaHaHaHaHaHa!

It's spelt Hahahahahahaha.

Hahahahahahaha!

I thought it was HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Anyway, it pretty much sums up how I feel watching Peter Van Loan do his his nanny-nanny-poo-poo routine in QP! Hilarious!

Swift said...

Harper, Duceppe, and Layton just ganged up on poor Dion. But don't say it's not fair, Stephie, after all you've got Lizzie May on your side.

liberal supporter said...

Harper, Duceppe, and Layton just ganged up on poor Dion. But don't say it's not fair, Stephie, after all you've got Lizzie May on your side.

The puffery continues here! What is unfair about parliamentary wrangling? You're referring to Dion responding to Ignatieff during the leadership race right? Apparently calling someone on their rhetoric is wrong, in your view.

But keep up with that. CPC - the party that prefers unfairness.

"Poor" Dion. Heh.

When did Lizzie May get a seat in the House?

And still, if he is so bad, and so "not a leader", why are your spinners out in force today?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Breaking news on newstalk 570 says that the Liberals are planning a 'poison pill' for the NDP.

More details when available.

Brian in Calgary said...

Goodale for Liberal leader!

Hear, hear! Let's see him do for the federal Liberals what he did for the Saskatchewan Liberals when he was their leader - only that party's two worst ever showings in the popular vote (5% in 1982, 10% in 1986).

liberal supporter said...

Breaking news on newstalk 570 says that the Liberals are planning a 'poison pill' for the NDP.
Yawn. Why can't our Parliament be more interesting?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

L.S. - lol! That makes our guys look quite civilized.

Swift said...

It is elementary, lib supporter, why Harper, Layton, and Duceppe are all setting sights on Dion and the Liberals. They are all at least three moves ahead. And you missed the irony of the situation entirely. I know, it's unfair to make a comment that requires thought to appreciate.

tori said...

Well, that settles that!

Dion has no balls.

Of the two evils, voting against the govt at least had the possibility of some good news- because polls and attitudes can change during an election.

Now he just comes off as unprincipled. "We are against everything in the TS, but we're not voting it down" just reeks of desperation.

Maybe Dion should move to Wisteria Lane

Barbara said...

After listening to Dion speak, I swear my ears are bleeding! It's like he has a mouth full of marbles! For the last 18 months, he's been warning Canadians of how dangerous Harper is and his hidden agenda and how we're all going to die unless something is done NOW for the environment. Here's his chance to save mankind, and he doesn't do it. What a leader!

liberal supporter said...

Dion has no balls.

Spin as usual here, I see. He didn't take your bait and now you're all sore. Tough.

He didn't vote against the ceremonial throne speech. Surprise surprise. No government has ever fallen on a throne speech. Just because Steve wants to toss away tradition by having the speech at 6:30 in the evening, doesn't mean we have to also toss away tradition.

NO government, even in minority, has been defeated on a Throne Speech. We're just following tradition.

What other Canadian traditions would you like to throw out? Perhaps civil liberties? Perhaps the Supreme Court? How about that Senate? The Constitution? Elections Canada?

liberal supporter said...

After listening to Dion speak, I swear my ears are bleeding! It's like he has a mouth full of marbles!

Yes and Steve is fat.


For the last 18 months, he's been warning Canadians of how dangerous Harper is and his hidden agenda

Wow, even before he was leader! Fortunately Harper's still in a minority, so will govern much like a Liberal. The hidden agenda is not really so hidden, but it is dangerous.


and how we're all going to die unless something is done NOW for the environment.

So the Kyoto protocol, which works over a 12 year period is too little, in your view?


Here's his chance to save mankind, and he doesn't do it.

Wow, I thought it was just a ceremonial speech. Don't worry, others are working on the technologies we should be leaders in. Too bad we won't make a buck off saving the world as long as Steve is there.

What a leader!

I think Dion is a great leader. A statesmen, not a henchman.

tori said...

actually ls, I honestly think Dion did not have a lose/lose sit.

he had a lose/possible win sit.

You know with an election, anything can happen. All it takes is one bad soundbyte, or RCMP investigation to turn an election around. Dion HAD a chance with an election now.

By supporting the TS, he has no chance. He's already been defined as not a leader quite effectively. This does not help.

I personally did not care either way if there was an election or not. No election- Harper can effectively lead like he has a majority until 2009. Election? I think the conservatives would put of a good campaign. Either way, I was happy.

The same can not be said for the LPC or LPC supporters, sadly

Joanne (True Blue) said...

I'm still trying to wrap my head around Dion's chess move.

Anonymous said...

Dion vs. carrot

I'm voting "carrot"

Roy Eappen said...

LS supporter > I am glad dion has a single friend left in the grit party. Thats very loyal of you. Your comment about Prime Minister Stephen Harpe's weight was tasteles and petty, but that describes your whole party pretty well. Let's watch as pseudo chretien and dithers pull of the grit scabs until the bleeding becomes a hemorrage.
canadians are tired of grits that doo nothing but steal money.
dion and may will now basically repudiate kyoto. dion will haveeven less credibility than before. watch what jack layton does to the left of the grits.
Maybe you should make your maximal donation to the grits. i bet you haven't given them a dollar.
I also laugh last.

liberal supporter said...

By supporting the TS, he has no chance. He's already been defined as not a leader quite effectively. This does not help.

Why does supporting the ceremonial TS do that? If that was the case, everyone would go home until the next election. The TS is simply tradition.

I personally did not care either way if there was an election or not. No election- Harper can effectively lead like he has a majority until 2009. Election? I think the conservatives would put of a good campaign. Either way, I was happy.

Those options sound a lot like the Toronto council where the choices are massive service cuts or tax hikes. The "run the city better" option is not on the list.

Supporting the Throne Speech does not imply no election until 2009. He can choose the issue on which to defeat the government.

The same can not be said for the LPC or LPC supporters, sadly

I'm happy! We're staying in the headlines while the government continues its never ending campaigning.

liberal supporter said...

Your comment about Prime Minister Stephen Harpe's weight was tasteles and petty, but that describes your whole party pretty well.

I was responding to barbara commenting that dion talks like his mouth is full of marbles, and that her ears were bleeding. That is not tasteless and petty?

How about tori's comment about Dion having no balls? Not tasteless and petty?

So, by your own definition, "tasteless and petty" describes your party very well.

Let's watch as pseudo chretien and dithers pull of the grit scabs until the bleeding becomes a hemorrage.

As long as you spell their names right, the more press the better.

canadians are tired of grits that doo nothing but steal money.

Canadians lost 10 times the amount of money from income trusts than in the most ambitious statements of adscam's cost. And the adscam money was already taxed money, unlike the income trust money that is directly lost.

dion and may will now basically repudiate kyoto.

No, Harper wants to do that. As far as international treaties such as Kyoto go, when Harper is gone, then Canada will be back.

dion will haveeven less credibility than before.

Yes, and I am sure you will never refer to him as HM, even if he was PM. Have you ever referred to HM Jean Chretien or HM Paul Martin?

Kingston said...

LS, I do not normally call B.S. on anyone but I have to on your comments concerning the ceremonial throne speech, if the polls last week had shown the LPC ahead of the CPC we would be debating on which Opp Party amendment the govt is going to fall on and you have to acknowledge that is true.

There would be no talk about election fatigue coming from any LPC member or supporter and we would be heading to the polls. This is a ploy to allow the LPC some time to sort out the mess they have made for themselves and I would respect them more if they just said so, i.e. "We despise the throne speech, this govt is bad for Canada and we want an election but were not ready, but were going to fix that as soon as we can".

That I could respect, but what they are doing is contemptible and an abandoning of their principals and I fear for the LPC sakes since most Canadians are going to see that very clearly.

PS, Where did you get the post of the LPC caucus meeting this morning, I thought it was a closed door meeting. LMAO, Sorry my friend I couldn't help myself on that one

Kingston said...

LS> That should be picture not post in the PS

Barbara said...

Hey LS

When I said that it sounded as if Dion had a mouth full of marbles, I was not trying to be petty or mean. It is a fact. Like it or not. You say Harper's fat. That may be, but it doesn't affect his communication. If 3/4 of the population can't stand listening to Dion and tune out after 2 minutes, there is no way he can get his message out.

liberal supporter said...

PS, Where did you get the picture of the LPC caucus meeting this morning

I'm not following. You are referring to predicting the Liberals will support the Throne Speech?

if the polls last week had shown the LPC ahead of the CPC we would be debating on which Opp Party amendment the govt is going to fall on and you have to acknowledge that is true.

Possibly. But NO government has ever fallen on a Throne Speech. I don't know if there are any cases where there was a second Throne Speech in a minority government with no election between, so this could be an unusual case.

But why not wait for a specific issue to defeat them on? It would provide a single issue campaign, such as Ontario just had (such as it was).

liberal supporter said...

When I said that it sounded as if Dion had a mouth full of marbles, I was not trying to be petty or mean. It is a fact. Like it or not. You say Harper's fat. That may be, but it doesn't affect his communication. If 3/4 of the population can't stand listening to Dion and tune out after 2 minutes, there is no way he can get his message out.

So we have one "that's different" response to justify your insults while finger wagging at mine. I wonder how "he has no balls" will be explained away?

A person's weight can affect their communication just as much as anything else. Harper has gained weight in recent years. Like it or not. Apparently he is so sacred, that in your view Dion is not permitted to even joke about the new exercise room at Stornoway. He was referring to sending Harper back to Stornoway, and he'd put the exercise room to good use.

How did you arrive at "3/4 of the population can't stand listening to Dion and tune out after 2 minutes"? And why do you care? It should be good for the CPC.

Except it is not factually true, so here you are spinning hoping someone will think it is true.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

O.K. Mom's had it! Everyone go sit in a corner!!!

Kingston said...

LS, I was refer to the pic you linked to of the slight disagreement in I believe the Taiwan Parliament if I am correct.

Wed Oct 17, 04:08:00 PM EDT

I am pretty sure that is Garth on the far left under two other people,,LMAO

Kingston said...

Further to my last, I like you skip all over the blogsphere and there are a lot of angry LPC bloggers out there right now that expected the LPC to live up to their statements of the last ten months. Heck I expected them too. I know the LPC want to fight the next election on a single issue, I just really believe that Mr.Harper will not give Mr.Dion his wish and allow him to fight on a item of his choosing. He still gets to pick what is confidence and what is not. How many votes with the LPC backing down such as the up coming crime package do you think Mr.Dion can survive LS

Kingston said...

go to a corner Joanne, Me Too,, I thought I was your fav child,,lmao

liberal supporter said...

LS, I was refer to the pic you linked to of the slight disagreement in I believe the Taiwan Parliament if I am correct.

Wed Oct 17, 04:08:00 PM EDT

I am pretty sure that is Garth on the far left under two other people,,LMAO



Ha! I missed that completely! I was trying to find a bigger one. The best ones of course are on mainland .cn sites. They probably want their people to think too much democracy is a bad thing.

Garth's a big guy. He's fat, so they left him to throw two other guys off by himself.

Too bad there were no cameras from when they made the benches "two sword lengths" apart.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

I thought I was your fav child

Shush! You are. Just don't tell the others!

liberal supporter said...

Further to my last, I like you skip all over the blogsphere and there are a lot of angry LPC bloggers out there right now that expected the LPC to live up to their statements of the last ten months. Heck I expected them too.

Other than RT I seldom read other political bloggers, let alone LPC bloggers. I care not about other LPC bloggers, they're already voting for the Liberals. I won't learn anything about issues, or other points of view, from talking to them.

What statements of the last ten months are you referring to? They want to get back in?

I know the LPC want to fight the next election on a single issue, I just really believe that Mr.Harper will not give Mr.Dion his wish and allow him to fight on a item of his choosing.

Of course he'll try not to. As seen in Ontario, the issue can develop during the campaign. But any specific issue is better than the general Throne Speech. We want the Parliament to work. Voting against the Throne Speech would indicate we don't.

A lot of spin has been put out that somehow allowing the Throne Speech is "backing down". I consider it more like "being polite". One of Dion's selling points is that he is a real gentleman. He is courteous and good spirited, most of the time. Qualities of a statesman, in my view.

He still gets to pick what is confidence and what is not. How many votes with the LPC backing down such as the up coming crime package do you think Mr.Dion can survive LS

The crime package will be viewed on its merits. Stopping violent crime is pretty much a no brainer. The problems often come up with the rights of the accused. Spin it as "caring more about the criminals" if you like, but it is really "caring about the innocent" and recognizing courts can be wrong.

Mandatory sentences seems a wrong headed approach, I don't think it will have the effect desired, but it is something I would go along with. Sometimes we have to see something doesn't work well.

Same with age of consent. We already have laws to protect under 18s from exploitive relationships. You can do porn at 16 in other countries, but here it is 18. Another case where it won't have the effect desired, but let's give it a try.

Both of these seem to be about taking discretion from judges and courts. I read recently that China is now experimenting with having artificial intelligence type computers look at legal cases. Hopefully their judgebot does not come with the execution vans.

So it could pass or not. Much of it was already through the Senate, but the government held it up for the parts that hadn't gone through. We'll see.

I think the issue would likely be the environment. Regardless of why the government falls, it will be the environment. The campaign poster can be seen here

Joanne (True Blue) said...

ame with age of consent. We already have laws to protect under 18s from exploitive relationships.

These laws concerning exploitation are too hard to prove. This is why they want to go to a simple raising of the age of consent from 14 to 16, with the close-in-age exemption of 5 years.

Because no one who is older than 20 should be 'doing' a 14 year-old , right? Or does anyone have a problem with that?

kursk said...

Well, ask PET (bit late though..) about the suspension of civil liberties..and if you listened to the whole of PM Harpers speech, he basically said that if the senate cannot be reformed, it should be abolished..

A boy can only dream..

Joanne (True Blue) said...

if the senate cannot be reformed, it should be abolished..

I agree. There is no way that the Senate should be blocking legislation passed by the House of Commons for over a year! Bad enough those old so-and-so's have life-time postings and golden pensions, but then they deliberately try to thwart democracy.

Anonymous said...

Look no further that Warren Kinsella's column in today's Post.

Clearly he thinks Dion has much to learn from the Lemming Liberal Nation what is Ontario.

Could Kinsella be paving the way for the lead lemming to take over(or push) dion off the cliff as leader of the fed. lemmings?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Could Kinsella be paving the way for the lead lemming to take over(or push) dion off the cliff as leader of the fed. lemmings?

One can only hope. It seems that the Liberal caucus has talked Dion into supporting the government for a while. Will this give Dalton a breather before he challenges Dion for the crown? Interesting times.

Anonymous said...

Maybe we could see a Dalton vs. Gerard Kennedy battle for the leadership???

I'd pay to see that one!

Möbius said...

Maybe we could see a Dalton vs. Gerard Kennedy battle for the leadership???

I'd pay to see that one!


The problem is, whoever won, we'd all lose.