Depending on which editorial or column you read this morning, opinions range all the way from a clear win for McGuinty to an uncontested Tory victory; with Howard Hampton picking up a few points along the way. (Interesting to see the Star and the Record at odds.)
However, the biggest surprise by far was reading Lorrie Goldstein's Point of View - Game, Set and Match to McGuinty. What??????? But on closer inspection, I wonder if Lorrie is suggesting that it wasn't McGuinty's actual performance which won the debate, but rather his handlers' clever manipulation of the media and public opinion:
Even the wording of the questions revealed how McGuinty has convinced everyone -- including the debate organizers -- that a relatively minor promise by Tory is the defining issue.
So is he saying that the Liberal strategists won the debate?
Geoffrey Stevens doesn't think so. I rarely agree with Stevens' POV, but today I almost choked on my morning java:
Whoever prepared Premier Dalton McGuinty for the leaders' debate last night should be fired. He or she should be drummed unceremoniously out of the Honourable Fraternity of Political Savants and Gurus.
The Liberal strategy was appalling. McGuinty did what a prize fighter should never do - he led with his chin. He opened with a video in which he did a mea culpa, apologizing to Ontarians for breaking his 2003 election promise not to raise taxes. "I hated it," he declared, rather pathetically.
Yes, I wonder who had that brainstorm? Stevens goes on:
I've been covering leaders' debates for years and I have never seen one as one-sided as last night's. If TVOntario's Steve Paikin had been a referee rather than a moderator, he would have stopped the carnage at the 30-minute mark and declared a TKO victory for the tag team of Tory and Hampton.
And here's his knock-out punch for McGuinty:
If other people watched the same debate that I did, John Tory should gain some momentum. He looked stronger and more confident than McGuinty. He looked more like a premier than the premier did. If I were grading the leaders' performances, I'd give Tory an A, Hampton a B-plus and McGuinty, to be charitable, a D.
Will Dalton have time to heal before Ontario voters have to make a final decision? I suppose it depends how gullible and disinterested the electorate is.
One thing for sure. The Hampton-Tory tag team worked remarkably well, as it has in the past when dealing with 'Colle-gate' or Cricketgate, when the NDP and PC's combined force and persistence finally led to Dalton crying 'uncle' and calling in the Auditor General Jim McCarter to investigate the slush fund controversy.
Leadership debates allow the candidates to talk straight to the people. With the exception of those new taped bits at the beginning, the format is relatively free of spin and interference from handlers who try to divert attention and control access.
Make your decision, Ontario.
Do you really want four more years of a healed Dalton McGuinty?
* * * *
Update: Joan Tintor - Liberals didn't lower expectations enough.
Matt - Pundits Agree: Liberal Dalton McGuinty pummeled in debate.
Slimy Update - Check this out (under the category how low can you go?):
Newsflash: The disgust is not because of Tory & Hampton, Warren.
Saturday Update: Star - Debate hasn't dimmed McGuinty's hope for a majority:
HoJo. Cute. Very professional, DalWar. Or would that be McWar? Or DalKin?
Matt - Pundits Agree: Liberal Dalton McGuinty pummeled in debate.
Slimy Update - Check this out (under the category how low can you go?):
September 21, 2007 – I just got this press release in my mailbox. Is it, um, for real?
...
Coyote Ugly
Toronto – This morning, Howard Hampton showed up at an NDP rally missing his left arm from the forearm down.
“I woke up this morning, looked over and saw John Tory,” said a visibly disgusted Hampton. “Instead of waking him up and having to talk to him, I decided I would rather chew my arm off. So I did.”
Hampton also expressed some anxiety.
“I hope John understand this was a one-night stand and doesn’t try to pursue a serious, long-term relationship,” said Hampton.
When reached for comment, Tory was eager to get on the phone. “I should call him. Do you think it’s too early to call? Maybe I should wait another day. No, I should call him now.”
As Tory and Hampton sort out their unholy love affair, Ontarians across the province are reacting with disgust.
Newsflash: The disgust is not because of Tory & Hampton, Warren.
Saturday Update: Star - Debate hasn't dimmed McGuinty's hope for a majority:
"Well, last night I got to meet our latest glam couple, Howard and John, or as now they are ... affectionately known in the hearts of Ontarians, HoJo," McGuinty told 300 supporters at a morning rally in Vaughan.
HoJo. Cute. Very professional, DalWar. Or would that be McWar? Or DalKin?
33 comments:
Quite honestly I think the whole debate itself was a clever manipulation to showcase the Ontario Lemming Leader. Even the sequencing of questions. And Steve Pakin needs to be replaced. He gave every advantage to Mr. Lemming.
I also don't like the introductory videos. We get enough of that crap during the campaign, I want the leaders of the three parties speaking directly to ME in real-time not some staged video.
I think Tory was by far the better leader on the stage. While Lorrie G. gives Dalton's handlers kudos for preparing their candidate I give Tory's handlers a failing grade. It makes me wonder whether Tory's surrounded by people who actually want him to win this things or not.
On Mr. Lemming's saving the education system alone, Tory could have garnered a smackdown on "test scores have gone up" given what we learned on Wednesday about how in spite of a dumbing down of the tests our kids aren't learning to read, write or do math.
Ontarians are being conned by McGuinty on so much, and I had to wonder whether McGuinty's trainers advised him to cry on cue should he need to do that?
How stupid are Ontarians? I think the McGuinty team thinks Ontarians are very stupid.
I also don't like the introductory videos.
I agree. We don't need more commercials during a debate. Bad, bad idea. Very artificial.
It makes me wonder whether Tory's surrounded by people who actually want him to win this things or not.
Hmm.. The old conspiracy theory. Yes, there are some who would agree with you on that. John Tory is just not 'Tory' enough for many Conservatives. Honestly, John Tory could be running for the Liberals just as easily, but minus the broken promises. However, I think he has some integrity. I hope.
On Mr. Lemming's saving the education system alone, Tory could have garnered a smackdown on "test scores have gone up" given what we learned on Wednesday about how in spite of a dumbing down of the tests our kids aren't learning to read, write or do math
That's right. Why aren't the media making more of that?
Tory made an OK showing but needed to do even better to sway the GTA vote his way. It's going to be an up hill battle as the private school funding issue is still unclear in many voters minds. Too bad it's become the focal point of the Tory campaign as it's hurting his chances.
Dalton's still the oddest looking and sounding political leader I've ever seen or heard.
After watching some of the debate last night , this morning I was thinking about the tepid MSM reaction to Dalton being pummeled about broken promises (er ... lies ).
I was thinking how different the MSM response would have been , if Mike Harris had done what McQuinty did and Harris had been in McQuinty's boots last night.
Gosh ... the headlines would have been LIAR HARRIS ... HARRIS DISBGACED .... TIME FOR CHANGE ... etc.
It is so nice to know that we have such a reliable MSM which can overlook outright lies and failure to uphold laws (Caldeonia) whenever it is a Liberal at fault.
Dalton's still the oddest looking and sounding political leader I've ever seen or heard.
Heh. Somewhere I read this morning that he looked like Norman Bates' older brother.
The dead "mother" staring through the window is the apathetic Ontarian electorate who will surely reelect "Norman"...Rather keep the promise breaking "psycho" we know than to have to interrupt 'Canadian Idol' or 'Hockey night in Canada' for useless reflections like our crumbling healthcare or our dying manufacturing sector.
No wonder we have to dumb down our education system. It has to fit with the IQ of it's population.
It is so nice to know that we have such a reliable MSM which can overlook outright lies and failure to uphold laws (Caldeonia) whenever it is a Liberal at fault.
Brian, agreed. I listened to a panel afterwards and the issue of Caledonia came up. Apparently they didn't think it was a good question for a debate forum, given the volatile nature of the native file. On the other hand, it would have been interesting to hear the leaders give their general POV regarding the handling of native stand-offs and policing.
No wonder we have to dumb down our education system. It has to fit with the IQ of it's population.
Anon, you need to start a blog.
Dalton's still the oddest looking and sounding political leader I've ever seen or heard.
I did not know John Tory comments on this blog. I am pleased he has learned that Jean Chretien is no longer the oddest looking. Or maybe Chretien gets a pass because he has Bell's palsy. But does John Tory think that Mr. Chretien's condition is a punishment from God?
L.S. - You're right, of course. Nobody should make fun of Dalton's resemblance to a weasel. He can't help it.
BTW, even some of his supporters note the Norman Bates resemblance.
Is there a name for an infliction in which one would STILL support the Liberal party?
Or is it an addiction aided by some force like a plush government job?
Is there a cure for this form of mental wasting disability?
Maybe it's too late to save you, you had too wait too long in queue to be diagnosed and treated.
I did not know John Tory comments on this blog.
That, BTW, may have actually been Howard Hampton.
Is there a name for an infliction in which one would STILL support the Liberal party?
Yes, it's called voter-apathy and media-brainwashing. It appears to be working.
Nobody should make fun of Dalton's resemblance to a weasel. He can't help it.
BTW, even some of his supporters note the Norman Bates resemblance.
Physically, he does, actually.
Resemblence to movie characters, especially evil ones, is fair game. Resemblance to various fauna, physical or by behaviour, is fair game. Dion is regularly portrayed as a rat in the separatist media.
It was just the "oddest looking" line that led to me snarking about making fun of disabilities.
I agree Joanne, and thanks for the Geoff Stevens piece. He is no Conservative lover, and saw the debate the same way I did.
You guys in Ontario don't know how good you have it. Here in Manitoba, I didn't even get to see a leadership debate because it was only aired on "Shaw TV". Doer refused to debate on an actual network, and even with the Shaw debate he wouldn't participate unless they agreed to accept the NDP's format changes. Add to that the fact that the major newspaper here is owned by a good buddy of Doer's, and you can begin to see how Doer gets away without being held accountable for any of his failures.
I wish you guys luck out there in ON. It sounds like the media coverage is at least a little bit more balanced, so hopefully voters will be able make an informed decision at the poll.
L.S. - It was just the "oddest looking" line that led to me snarking about making fun of disabilities.
Oddity is in the eye of the beholder.
Joan - This is the first time I've agree with G.S. in about 3 years!
Cherenkov - It sounds like the media coverage is at least a little bit more balanced
If that's the case, I pity you guys in Manitoba. A province that has it worse than Ontario in terms of media bias is quite an accomplishment.
All of you Liberals babies out there need to grow some. When I heard the reports this morning of McGuinty making fun of the debate and his opponents to the point of giving them the moniker of "HoJo", I think that McGuinty looking like Norman Bates or anyone else for that matter is fair game.
Honestly, the very fact that McGuinty has the nerve to make fun of the debate is pretty insulting in itself.
However, what the Liberals and Metroland did this morning was really offensive. If you didn't see it the Liberals paid for frontpage advertizing in Metroland. Metroland printed it as if it were front page news. The caption being that McGuinty won the debate.
This is a very desperate move on the part of the Liberals and a clear sign that Metroland thinks GTA voters are stupid and fell for the con job. Only Leslie Roberts challenged the Liberals and Metroland for this.
Where the hell are the other MSM who stand for something instead of being bought?
Dalton is another example of a "turd that won't shine", but Kinsella is doing his damndest to keep him buffed off, only the horse dung he is using to polish Dalton is dulling the cow dung.
If you didn't see it the Liberals paid for frontpage advertizing in Metroland. Metroland printed it as if it were front page news. The caption being that McGuinty won the debate.
There must be some kind of law against that. I can't believe that is legal. It's very undemocratic and immoral at the very least.
It's all about ethics Joanne. Something the entitled Lemming Liberals know nothing about.
All you have to do is check out Kinsella's blog or Kinsella Jr.'s (Cherniak) to know who's got behind kicking ass.
Blogging Tories need to bring this forward and keep it fresh.
I just can't get the sound of McGuinty's voice laughing and blowing off the debate this morning out of my head.
This from the same guy who cancelled debate in the legislature so he could toss money at voters to buy them.
Maybe John Tory is respectful enought not to have called McGuinty a promise-breaking liar, but that shouldn't stop the rest of Ontario from doing so.
The really ironic part is that the Lemming Liberal Leader spend thousands on a campaign to teach Ontario's student about character education, and yet he sets such a poor, POOR example.
Do any Tory bloggers know any one with kids in the York school board.
Apparently in its efforts to jam their class size cap down the throats of schools and boards the York region has to completely reorganize its primary class sizes, almost overnight because they were at 22-25(with teachers, parents and kids just fine with that). So, all these kids are being pulled out of their original classes and put into new ones to meet the damn cap.
What a mean thing to do to little kids who are just getting used to teachers, friends, and a new school year.
Parents are PISSED!!!
At least Norman Bates kept his promise.
Can someone get the Metroland stuff and post it here. I'm now curious. As someone who doesn't live in the GTA I feel sorry for folks for having been fooled into believing the Metroland, owned by the Toronto Star would treat their readership like that.
Can someone get the Metroland stuff and post it here. I'm now curious.
I'm curious too. Unfortunately, I am very busy right now, or I'd follow up on it. Any links would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Who said this?
"Even though I was a reporter myself, I long ago abandoned the view that journalists and their editors are scrupulously non-partisan and solely motivated by the public interest. They are not, believe me. But reporters and editors still play a role-sometimes important, sometimes not-in influencing the choices voters make when they reach for a pencil in a balloting station on election day."
"In any election campaign--with the time so short and the stakes so high--it is not just acceptable to critique an opponent's public record. It is, in fact, the right thing to do."
Mr. Kicking Ass himself.
Anon, only Liberals are entitled to 'kick ass'. ;)
I don't make my decisions from a debate - was that a debate? John Tory, motor mouth of the year (God that man talks alot) is annoying and he kept interrupting even when asked to let the other man speak.
Talking fast and loud and attacking isn't a debate - debating policies, etc. is a debate and that why I hate these forums.
I have many friends of different political stripes - they find John Tory annoying - like a yappy old woman.
Oh and ya, by the snap of a finger Tory gonna solve all the problems - duh - not the way he's going. You can't reduce taxes and do all the things he says he's gonna do - either he will have to cut services or put us in huge debt - not rocket science.
The debate I watched was a series of weasle moves by McFerretface...... Troy should have been stomping the life out of the lying rodent....but did not.
If there were any justice, or an unbiased media, that little piece of Warren's would become the reptilian kitten eater of this campaign. Don't hold your breath though.
Thanks for that reminder Clive!Didn't the media have fun with that!!
Well, the Warren/Cherniak combo has convinced me to vote PC in my riding, after a long internal debate.
They really do sicken me with their paid sycophancy.
Yay, Möbius!!
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