Thursday, October 26, 2006

Neither wind, nor rain, nor sleet, nor snow...

Well, it seems there are exceptions to how far mail carriers will go to fulfull their duties. Management will now deliver the offending brochures.

Are you o.k. with Canada Post employees reading your mail and deciding whether or not it is worthy of delivery?


counter-coulter said...

Seeing cliff-hangers where there are no cliffs Joanne? From one of the articles you cited:

"But it will be going out as scheduled within the next three days, that's our time commitment to our client."

If the postal workers were to refuse to distribute the unaddressed booklets prepared by an Ontario-based religious group, they would be notified they were participating in an "illegal work stoppage," Au said.

Sounds to me like they handled it correctly.

Cherniak_WTF said...

Oddly enough you seem to be arguing the exact opposite here:

Because it's religious nuts doing some gay bashing, you think it's fine to force mail carriers to deliver the material but a public employee should not perform SSM....

x2para said...

these people are a disgrace; I don't give a flying you know what if they are offended or not; their job is to deliver the mail thats it, if they can't or won't then they shoud be fired; and management didn't handle it correctly, in fact they simply wimped out; I guess this union must now agree that a cop who does'nt agree with abortion can refuse to provide security at an abortion clinic or marraige commissioners can refuse to marry homosexuals; if they don't then they are the worst kind of hypocrites

Sara said...

yah I'm agreeing with counter, can't believe I'm flipping saying that lol...

They were flyers not letter so anyone could of read them. The same goes for the little black book, I wouldn't want that delivered to me with its wording. Those flyers are using some harsh language against gays... I get the unnatural, that could be said gay couples can't naturally have babies, and it is blaming gays for aids.
Yes it is a big concern but it is because they didn't use condems and the ummm anal tears (I can't believe I said that, yuck)

Either way if the postal workers do not have to deliver it then the judges do not have to marry gays because of their personal belief.

Think about it, postal workers think this is wrong they are not forced to deliver.

Judge or priest, minister etc.. thinks marrying gay couples is wrong then they should not be forced either....

just a thought

PGP said...

Nobody hired these people to be censors.
Regardless of the content the mail is the responsibility of the posties to deliver.

Cherniak_WTF said...

Sara and all, the mail will be delivered...
Now I'd really like to see these Religious groups spend more energy on peace and love instead of hate all the time.
There are alot of good concepts in "religion" but the wingnutters seem to dominate and push vileness..

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Interesting post on this at Gay and Right.

Anonymous said...

Let's see ... hired to deliver mail? Deliver it. Hired to officiate at civil marriages? Officiate.

This is not a hard concept, is it? ;)

liberal supporter said...

Recall the Knights of Columbus case. They were found to be within their rights to refuse the gay wedding reception (though they had to pay for breaching a contract).

There was speculation that the dykes were deliberately trying to rent the KofC hall, in order to, um, in order to, um, I forget what their ulterior motive was supposed to be. Maybe to get a human rights test case going, or just make the Church look bad. Spiteful bitches they must be.

As we see from the comments here, it would not be outlandish to speculate that the Ontario Baptists are deliberately trying to deliver flyers (3000 miles from Ontario) in that faggot paradise, BC, to bolster their own "refuse same sex anything on religious grounds, even outside of a church" agenda.

And the right wing contolled conservative biased media is right on it trumping the story up. Bad old unionists want to censor the mail.

Or maybe the posties simply found a good excuse to take the afternoon off, since it is a nice day. By going back tomorrow, it publicizes the hate literature, without given the hate perps their ammo for refusing to serve fags outside of their churches.

I disapprove of these people using my tax money (they have tax exemptions as a church, so it is effectively my tax dollars they are spending) on this advertising campaign.

By the way, what are they selling with these unadressed admail items? Do they axpect to attract new members to their church 3000 miles away?

Red Tory said...

LS -- Good luck getting a sensible response to your question(s).

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Good luck getting a sensible response to your question

One question, which I assume is rhetorical.

Diane said...

Thank you for visiting my blog. I was out of the country when the Peter McKay comment was made. Do you think we as a Canadian society thrive on the tabloid like scandal of Stronach's life?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Diane, it's a real-life soap opera! Who can resist? ;)

Riley Hennessey said...


The pamphlets were not sealed, they were open to see. How would you feel if muslims started mailing out hateful anti jew or anti-christian pamphlets? What would you say then? "Sure deliver them, its your job"?

If I was a postal worker and there was a pamphlet that said "Christians are all going to hell, you are ungodly" I'll tell you right now I wouldn't deliver it. I wouldn't expect our postal service to deliver anything that is hateful or harmful.

Are you really telling me Joanne that these pamphlets should have been delivered??

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Well, Riley, who decides what is "hate mail"?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

BTW, I can't really venture an opinion here, because I haven't seen the pamphlet in question.

However, here is a question for you: The Western Standard decided to run those infamous Danish cartoons several months ago. If the postal union felt that that particular issue constituted "hate mail", would they have been justified to refuse to deliver the magazine to subscribers?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Riley, here's another question for you: Should the postal union refuse to deliver copies of the Bible?

People have been hauled before Human Rights courts for having referred to certain passages in public.

Chuckercanuck said...

personally, I'm not big on the "Homosexuality as Modern Plague" stuff.

but letter carriers would have my sympathy if they were refusing to deliver ads from Leon's furniture.

give me a break.

john said...

I can't understand why we still need letter carriers. I don't need to see bills on a daily basis, am happy to pick them up from the superbox down the street.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

I don't need to see bills on a daily basis Yeah, if they have a problem delivering bills, it's fine with me.

I think the post office will be obsolete soon anyway.

Riley Hennessey said...

Joanne I am stunned at this.

These pamphlets said homosexuals were ungodly and clearly were sent to tell people homosexuality is a sin and wrong.

They were hate-mail. This isn't one of those times where you can sit there and say "well, it's kind of on the fence".

I would love to see your reaction if you recieved an anti-Christian pamphlet in the mail. Maybe Amadinijad sends you a "christians are going to hell" pamphlet and I bet you'd just be all for defining what a hate-crime is?

Comparing the postal union delivering bibles vs the postal union delivering pamphlets that clearly lay out "YOU ARE EVIL" is hilarious. I'm a loving Christian who has read the bible, preached youth sermons in church and fully believes in the teachings of Jesus Christ. But nowhere do I believe for a second that the Christian faith that I studied and learned would tolerate sending hateful pamphlets in the mail to anyone. It's just silly.

I always enjoy your commentary and viewpoints Joanne, but I am somewhat surprized you would favor distributing hatemail.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Riley, I haven't seen the pamphlets so it's hard to render a judgement. If these pamphlets are so awful why are they being delivered anyway?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Why isn't the RCMP stepping in to confiscate the hate mail?

Riley Hennessey said...


That's the point!

If they do actually say homosexuals are unholy, ungodly and sinful, would you still think they should be sent?

Perhaps you would reply "well, according to my faith they are, so yes."

I'd then ask, should extreme muslims be allowed to send Christians letters stating "you are infidels, undeserving of Allah's praise. You will not be spared when Allah reclaims his lands" No problem right? Cause I've seen a big fat guy on "6 minutes with Allah" say that on the Vision Network (Channel 21 in New Brunswick). If that shit started coming to your door, would you say "oh well, that's their belief".

liberal supporter said...

They delivered them, so that the hate crime will actually have been perpetrated. If they are not delivered, there won't be numerous complaints filed.

Also they realized that "not" delivering them plays right into the agenda of the perps. Their agenda is to point at this and try to draw a parallel for the marriage commissioners discrimination case.

X liberal said...

Alot of apples and oranges going on here.

Knights of Columbus for example are NOT gov't. employess. They are an organisation with a "legal and binding" policy to promote and establish their own values.

Marriage commissionares (not JP's) are also NOT gov't. employees/civil servants. Theya are a dime a dozen and anyone can obtain a license to marry couples at their own descretion (oops, except for gays).

Canada Post has no problem distrbuting gay literature or pornographic litature. It is their duty to deliver not proofread by their own moral compass.

I am also still trying to figure out what is so hateful about a group that says homosexuality is sin! So what. It is their entitled opinion under the freedom of speech/expression gaurantees in that precious charter you liberals hold so dear.

I fail to see hate because one thinks homosexuality is "evil". They are allowed to disagree.

If they are promoting burning gay people at the stake now that is a different issue altogether.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Wow, Riley. Take a breath!

I don't see why you're mad at me. You want me to say that they shouldn't deliver the mail? Well, that decision rests with management.

How can a union decide what they will or won't do in terms of work, without getting some kind of formal grievance registered? That's crazy.

I agree with this much - If a postal worker is gay, and finds that delivering this material is offensive, I'm sure that he or she could complain to their supervisor and someone else could be found to do the work.

You are telling me that the postal workers themselves should decide what they deliver? If an anti-Christian mailing was contracted by Canada Post, I seriously doubt that the union would have a problem with that. But I would still expect them to deliver the offensive material, and then the people who were offended could take it up with the powers that be.

I'm sorry that you seem upset about this, but I just can't condone them not delivering the mail.

If the material is truly offensive, it should be returned to the group that is sending it, with an explanation.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

X liberal - What an interesting title. You must fill us in on that one.

Regarding your comment, I can't find anything I disagree with. The tone of the mailing sounds harsh, but for a church to not be able to say that homosexuality is a sin is exactly why we need something like DORA.

Anonymous said...

You need DORA to protect what? Your right to force postal workers to distribute junk mail? The postal workers did not interfere with this "reverend's" right to pen his libels, nor print them. His freedom of speech has not been infringed, nor has his freedom of religion.

The mail is being delivered, so the "reverend" can rest assured that his peculiar "sermon" will be disseminated, along with Pizza Pizza flyers, feminine hygeine product samplers, and shady offers of financial managers.

Apropos, that.

counter-coulter said...

Sara said...
yah I'm agreeing with counter, can't believe I'm flipping saying that lol...

** envisions the snowball fight that must be occurring in hell **

See Sara, sometimes we can agree on things. ;-)

Riley Hennessey said...

It just saddens me that you don't think there is anything wrong with negative propoganda being sent to people's homes simply because you agree with the propoganda itself. Regardless of the "management" we should be applauding postal workers who refuse to deliver mean-spirited materials.

The reason I'm dissapointed in this post is cause I really respect your views and your blog and even when I disagree with you, I still like your points. On this issue, you just seem to be saying "oh well, it's not a big deal it should be up to management".

If a young pregnant un-wed girl recieved a pamphlet in the mail saying "you're unholy and are going to hell" I'd be just as upset. Or how bout if a pamphlet went out to everyone in my town saying "if you aren't baptized you better like extreme heat, cause you're headed to hell".

Are those situations any different? Is this really just a management issue or should we applaud workers who refuse to deliver offensive materials?

How are those situations different?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Jay, I deleted your comment due to language, but I'm going to address your concerns.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

VM - Then there isn't a problem, unless people are no longer able to say at some point, that they believe that homosexualty is a sin.

Riley, this particular mailing may indeed be offensive, but I don't think it is the letter carrier's job to do that vetting. If I got some junk mail denigrating Christians, I wouldn't blame the guy who put it in the mailbox.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Jay said (minus the colourful language):

Well, If marriage coouncilors can refuse to do their jobs based on beliefs, why can't postal workers. Its the same issue

Marriage councillors can't refuse to perform a gay wedding so what's your problem?

Anyone who would agree that a gay person should be forced to retrieve this from their mail is nothing but a...

As I said before, the material may indeed be offensive, but I don't think it is the place of the letter carrier to make that judgement call.

Should a Fudamentalist Christian letter-carriers chuck the Playboy magazines into the trash?

Interesting that someone who preaches tolerance should call my god an 'f-ing bigot'. Nice.

liberal supporter said...

"I fail to see hate because one thinks homosexuality is "evil". They are allowed to disagree.

If they are promoting burning gay people at the stake now that is a different issue altogether."

Leviticus is pretty clear, though the specific method of death commanded is not given.

Chistians certainly feel uneasy when we hear Koran verses calling for death to infidels.

In both cases, the problem is taking the verses out of context.

counter-coulter said...

Joanne (True Blue) said...
Should a Fudamentalist Christian letter-carriers chuck the Playboy magazines into the trash?

Please stop trying to conflate unaddressed ad mail with personal mail. As if there's, all of a sudden, some conspiracy of posties to "censor" your personal mail.

As you should know, Playboys are not distributed as unaddressed ad mail and they wouldn't be subject to those regulations. With that said, they would still be subject to obscenity regulations as they pertain to personal mail.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

L.S. - I know the passage you are referring to. It is certainly open to interpretation. As I understand it, God is the one who will make the final decision regarding the "life" or "death" of the soul.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

CC - Yeah, O.K. Point taken.

Chuckercanuck said...

"we should be applauding postal workers who refuse to deliver mean-spirited materials."

It is 2050, and the postal workers union has long figured out that Newman was right - he who controls mail, controls information therfore controls the world - using their newly acquired power to determine what's mean-spirited or not, they take over Canada as a brutal oligarchy.

make a great sci-fi adventure battling the evil Post Office Worker Government.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

*lol* Chucker, too funny.

It sounds like the start of another hilarious post. Please continue!

Jay said...

Sorry about your god is a bigot comment Joanne, its not the god. Its those who follow it.

Playing coy about what you actually mean won't win you points. I know exactly what you meant by this post as you invoked DORA.

There is no need for this hate literature to be mailed out to everyone. Restrict it to your members and no problems. Would you like to receive a brochure that contains images of men kissing each other in your sunday morning mail?

You cons speak of community yet you wage wars on other communities. Sickening and if indicitive of the direction this country is heading, very sad. You are about to run this countries morals into the ground.

No one has issues with tax exempt religious groups violating the law and advocating? We helped subsidize the shipping of this garbage.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Would you like to receive a brochure that contains images of men kissing each other in your sunday morning mail?

I see that all the time on the news, thanks. Especially on tax-paper funded CBC.

liberal supporter said...

Much easier to avoid watching the tax payer funded CBC, than avoiding being exposed to tax payer funded gay bashing by mail. You can simply program the CBC station out of your TV, but you have to look at each piece of unaddressed mail, long enough to determine it is not addressed mail to you that got mixed in with it.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

L.S. - re; Jay's original example:

There is no need for this hate literature to be mailed out to everyone. Restrict it to your members and no problems. Would you like to receive a brochure that contains images of men kissing each other in your sunday morning mail?

Again we are comparing apples to oranges. Seeing pictures of gay men doing whatever is not the same as hate mail.

Let's use the example of anti-Christian hate mail coming to me. How would I feel about it? Of course I would be angry.

Not at the post office or the postal worker though. In fact, I would be angry if they didn't deliver it because then I would have no opportunity to see who was actually sending it, and try to see how the organization or individual could be stopped if it was indeed so offensive.

So I still stick by my original statement that these postal workers had no right to take it upon themselves to decide what was worthy of being delivered.

However, it will all soon be a moot point anyway, with Canada Post losing business to the internet and other more efficient information delivery methods.