Saturday, October 14, 2006

A friendly debate

Fred and I are having a little discussion over at Gay and Right.

He made the point that he wishes Harper would follow Gordon Brown's example and acknowledge society's failings regarding young boys.

Now, Fred seems to be a nice guy. Since he is also a Blogging Tory, I am trying to be as polite and objective as I can. But something bothered me when I read the article from the Daily Mail.

If it is true that society is responsible for the rising incidence of single parent families, with most custodial rights belonging to the mothers, and if this is having a negative effect on male children from those families, then why do we allow single people to adopt, and put them deliberately in that situation? And why do we allow gays and lesbians to adopt for the same reason, i.e. that we deny the child the benefit of an opposite-sexed parent right off the bat.

O.K. I've heard all the arguments; especially the ones about lesbians apparently being better parents than heterosexuals. I'm guessing the rationale there is that men are inherently more violent? Anyway, the point is that there is a certain benefit in the ying and the yang.

Girls need a male in their lives to validate their femininity. This encourages them to feel strong in their role as a woman, and not immediately seek out a casual fling to fulfill that need.

Boys need their fathers as role models. Fathers also sometimes provide that little push to do things that Mom would not have the courage to do. Sometimes Mom coddles when what the child really needs is Dad behind him to help deal with the real world out there.

Fred immediately began defending his right to same-sex marriage, which while it is part of the issue, is not the issue itself. Gay parents will always have children from previously failed marriages or whatever.

But what about adoption? Whose right is most important here?

I invite your comments, but please let's try to be especially calm and objective here. I will not tolerate any labelling or name-calling in this post. Thanks.

14 comments:

Riley Hennessey said...

I think a loving parent is a simply that: a loving parent.

In my mind, if you have a decent job, can provide the necessities for a child and can show you will love them and care for them...then you should be able to adopt.

Children learn from their environment not just from their two parents. Uncles, aunts, teachers, friends, parents, grandparents, neighbors, pets... children take it all in. A loving parent provides for that environment.

So if a candidate can provide that they will be a loving parent... that should be the end of discussion. Their sexual orientation or partner status should not be an issue. Whether it's a single man, single woman, or same sex couple... as long as they will love that child and PROVIDE for that child... I don't see the harm?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Riley, I see your point. Yes, if there is a loving and involved extended family, and a solid stable environment, then I agree.

I guess I was thinking about situations like this, or this.

But I'm sure that type of thing is the exception.

Anonymous said...

Since he is also a Blogging Tory, I am trying to be as polite and objective as I can. So if he was a liberal you won't do those things?

Girls need a male in their lives to validate their femininity. This encourages them to feel strong in their role as a woman, and not immediately seek out a casual fling to fulfill that need.

Boys need their fathers as role models. Fathers also sometimes provide that little push to do things that Mom would not have the courage to do. Sometimes Mom coddles when what the child really needs is Dad behind him to help deal with the real world out there.

These example are a bit troubling. They don't not match each other. So girls need males only to validate their femininity and boys need them for role models. May be you would like to change one of those examples.

Cherniak_WTF said...

I guess I was thinking about situations like this, or this.
I'm glad you state that they are the exception but your seems to be stating something else.

Are you stating that child molestation does not happen in "traditional" families? Surely you jest...

Both articles speak of molestation - and have strong religious overtones.
Now I'm not accusing all Catholic priests of being child molesters but they do seems to have a disproportionate representations in their ranks....
Maybe part of the problem in that they repress their sexuality and the bent up frustration comes out in a perverted way...

Anonymous said...

But I'm sure this type of thing is the exception...

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Valiantmauz - I already posted on that horrible story a couple of threads back. I agree, molestation can happen in either a gay or hetero environment. What that guy did was disgusting beyond belief.

When we talk about adoption though, we hope that the authorities are very careful about placements, and doing due diligence no matter what the sexual orientation.

Nobody has remarked about adoption placements with single people. Madonna for example.

Liberal Joanne - I thought somebody might pick up on the BT thing.

I think it's great that we have gays in BT, and I was just trying to say that my intention is not to offend Fred or anyone else by asking these questions. I will try to be polite and objective with you too. ;)

The examples I gave were not meant to cover a whole spectrum. Those were just a couple. Girls need that little push from Dad too. Dads are important to both genders for sometimes a more analytical approach to a problem; whereas Mom would tend to respond more with emotion. Talking generally here, but a bit from experience.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Margaret Somerville of course believes that a child has "a right to a biological mother and father, to be reared by them, unless there are good reasons to the contrary".

Many interesting POV in this link from the Calgary Herald back in June.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

This story is interesting too, although somewhat in reverse.

Jackki was taken back from a loving foster home by her lesbian birth mother.

Cherniak_WTF said...

Nobody has remarked about adoption placements with single people. Madonna for example.
She's married no?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Cherniak - Is she? I didn't know. Great role model whatever the case..

Cherniak_WTF said...

Joanne, yes she is married. I'm no fan of her music or her, but I'm surprised that you'd diss her.

She sounds like the perfect role model on paper. Stay at home mom, three children, rich, lives in England with a domestic help. Writes kiddie books and is religious...

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Writes kiddie books and is religious...

Sacrilegious.

Cherniak_WTF said...

Joanne, she has been quite the devotee of the Kabbalah Centre - and seems to strongly support that.

Sanity in Canada said...

I believe Joanne is like most Tories.. Religion counts only if it is the same religion as your own -- namely Christian, and preferably the same denomination.