Saturday, October 28, 2006

Multiculturalism - The Fatal Flaw

Ferret at Conservative Life has posted an interesting piece about British Iman Arshad Misbahi making a recent 'death slur' against gays.

Now before anyone starts ranting here, I want to make it very clear that such a statement is clearly outrageous and intolerable. However, it would seem that the Iman was trying to explain his interpretation of the 'official Muslim POV' when he was interviewed by local psychotherapist Dr. John Casson:

"I asked him what would be the British Muslim view? He repeated that in an Islamic state these punishments were justified. They might result in the deaths of thousands but if this deterred millions from having sex, and spreading disease, then it was worthwhile to protect the wider community."

"I checked again that this was not a matter of tradition, culture or local prejudice. 'No,' he said, 'It is part of the central tenets of Islam: that sex outside marriage is forbidden; this is stated in the Koran and the prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) had stated that these punishments were due to such behaviours.'"

Gay Rights groups are justifiably upset by these remarks, and speaking out against them. Some are saying that gays and Muslims should be working together; not against each other.

Ferret complains that MSM seem to be ignoring this story, but I did happen to find a BBC report:

Massoud Shadjareh, from the Islamic Human Rights Commission, said this was not an issue for Muslims.

He said homosexuality was "not compatible" with Islam, just as it was not compatible with other orthodox religions, such as Catholicism.

He added: "Just one man talking to another becomes an issue, Muslims are being put under a magnifying glass.

"I think that this is part of demonising Muslims," he said.

Well, while the official Catholic stance do not agree with homosexuality, I have never heard the Pope advocate executing gay folks.

However, I find this interesting because unlike the U.S. which has a 'melting pot' immigration philosophy, in a multicultural society we are all supposed to somehow retain our cultural traditions and respect each other's lifestyles, religions, etc. However, these two particular minority rights groups seem to be set on a collision course.

Will this type of attitude spill over to Canada at some point? Or are we so 'evolved' that this shouldn't be a problem, no matter which direction our immigration demographics happen to shift?

Update: Canada on the hit list.

Hallowe'en Update: From Dhimmi Watch - "Uncovered Meat" Shiek apologizes..", (but ever the victim).


C. LaRoche said...

Joanne, did you see this stuff about the Australian cleric?

Jan Hollander said...

Multiculturalism might be ok - note the might - when all participants adhere to the rules. Islam's willingness to play by the rules is at best suspect and at worst absolutely non existent. The consequences of Islam's behaviour towards other cultures and religion should be obvious but we lack the collective courage to clearly express them. Unless we are ok with seeing our granddaughters in burkas we better start finding some courage. And soon.

Mary said...

I am reading "America Alone" sub-titled "The end of the world as we know it" by Mark Steyn, P. 85 states :
"I can't help marveling at the speed and skill with which Muslim lobby groups have mastered the language of victimhood so adroiltly used by the gay lobby. If I were the latter, I'de be a little miffed at these Ahmed-come-latelys."
Later on p. 85
"But Islam's appropriation of the gay lobby's framing of the debate is very artful. It's the most explicit example of how Isalm uses politically correct self-indulgent victimology as a cover."

I highly recommend reading this book as it tells it like it is. We need a wake up call here in North America.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Great comments here!

Laroche, thanks for the reminder. Yes, that situation also shows the dichotomy between funadmentalist Islam and the Western society.

Jan, I agree. We will pay for our cowardice. Look how toadying to the Muslims in Britain only got them subway bombings by home-grown terrorists.

Of course there are moderate Muslims, but they need to be more vocal. Of course, they can't because they actually value their lives.

Mary - Thanks for that. I am looking forward to reading the book. I know someone who is planning to lend it to me when she is done with her copy. ;)

Jason Bo Green said...

Sorry if I swear here, I can't make any promises:

When the **** (there, I restrained myself) are Lefties going to wake up and understand: These fundamentalist radical extremists are w-o-r-l-d-s worse than the "American religious right"? That they seek to destroy EVERYthing that the Left claims to hold so dear to their hearts?

I'm getting so sick and disgusted with a Left that can't understand its own values and beliefs are at threat - it really fucking pisses me off!


The inability to wake up to a legitimate threat is one thing - the urge to defend it makes me want to spit I get so mad.

Jason Bo Green said...

Sorry Joanne.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

JBG - I'll let it pass this time. You had just cause to vent.

Jay said...

I agree with you that there is a huge threat but its hard for everyone to work together on serious issues like what has been brought up in this post. The fact is there some people are to busy defending themselves against the religious right to even think of greater problems on the horizon. Toronto Muslims have a little piece on their web about fixing homosexuality (no death threats though).

If you guys want support on issues like this you need to stop attacking your own countrymen, band together and face the real threat. If you keep fighting people over rights they are not gong to care about other issues.

I, myself, am too busy trying to protect my marriage status from the harper government to really care what's on the horizon. Nor does this constant threat of SSM voting really want me to take a side with conservatives on anything. They have been quite successful in being uninclusive. All the grief foisted upon me has not really help me distinguish the difference between christians and muslims when it comes to these matters.

Our governement has fractured the country too much to ever expect everyone to come together on an issue .

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Jay, thanks for your very candid thoughts.

Here is a line I take exception to though:

I, myself, am too busy trying to protect my marriage status from the harper government to really care what's on the horizon.

Jay, it's very unlikely that there would be enough support to revisit the issue, but if it did happen, there is no guarantee that anything would come of it, and Harper said that even if it did, he would not dissolve the status of existing marriages.

Therefore, I think your particular marriage is quite safe, except from the threat of divorce, which is a potential problem for anyone.

Anonymous said...

I guess as far as the MSM is concerned refering to some one as mans best friend is more important than threatening the lives of a whole group.

Red Tory said...

Radical Muslims have been given a free pass for the most part regarding their intolerant, bigoted attitudes towards women, homosexuals and others that don’t fit neatly into their narrow-minded, compartmentalized Sky-God driven view of the world. Personally, I find them every bit as objectionable as those of evangelical Christians. They’re two sides of the same coin. That said, I don’t think it’s fair to throw multiculturalism under the bus to make your point. There are over-arching “Canadian values” that have to transcend the parochial concerns of different ethnic groups as much as we may respect their right to be expressed within their own societal context.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

RT - There should be some kind of middle ground.

Political correctness is Multiculturalism's evil cousin. My favourite Christie Blatchford article:

Ignoring the biggest elephant in the room.

It's under a subscriber's lock, but you can go through the back door in Google.

Adrian MacNair said...

Jan Hollander said…

"Unless we are ok with seeing our granddaughters in burkas we better start finding some courage."

Isn't that hyperbole? By the time that happens, we will have been diluted by immigration to the point where our opinions don't matter much. I mean, how can you Conservatives complain when your very government continues allowing mass influx of foreigners who shun Canadian values and culture?

Jason, what do "lefties" have to do with anything? It's your conservative government that is in power to do something proactive now.

Daristotle said...

Jay, the solution to the problem of SSM is for the state to get out of the marriage bussiness. The Conservatives have suggested this, but the Liberals and the NDP are adamently against this. Without enogh support from the Bloc it can't be passed. So you and your partner and all your same minded friends should be voting Conservative next election. SSm are approved by some denominations so those that wish to get married would be able to.

Adrian might think about the lack of assimulation shown by the Amish and Mennonite sect in North America. He might also consider the division between Potestant and Catholic in Ireland. Some relious divisions will not dissappear in time. There has already been an attempt to have Islamic law recognized in Canada.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Jay, the solution to the problem of SSM is for the state to get out of the marriage bussiness.

Daristotle, I absolutely agree. Civil unions for everyone to be able to accomodate any rights and privileges. Then get it blessed by the church of your choice.

Everyone is happy. No divisions.

Just please don't call it marriage.

Red Tory said...

You liked that Christie Blatchford article, did you? I thought it was kind of loathsome and bigoted in that trite, dismissive way that seems to be the hallmark of her style. It’s a serious issue that requires serious consideration -– something Blatchford seems utterly incapable of providing. She appears to be far more interested in whipping up some cheap, but easily manufactured resentment about an identifiable ethnic/religious group. Again you find yourself in great company there Joanne.

x2para said...

Adrian you really have to get a grip on reality; if the conservatives actually tried to do something left-wing extremists would scream to high heaven with typical meaningless socialist slurs like intolerant,racist, anti-immigrant, mean spirited, loathsome, bigot blah blah blah, and the liberals & NDP would NEVER go along with it anyway. The Conservative party may not be as adept as the liberals at subterfuge and chicanery but they aren't stupid enough to commit political suicide

liberal supporter said...

Nice try, x2para. Keep selling the idea that the current minority government is acting the same as it would should it gain a majority.

"and the liberals & NDP would NEVER go along with it anyway."
would become completely inoperative under a CPC majority.

Mary said...

Wake up Canada!
From the book “AMERICA ALONE” by Mark Steyn page 83

“And if you’re looking for “root causes” of terrorism, why not start with Euro-Canadian welfare systems? While it’s not true that every immigrant on welfare is an Islamic terrorist, the vast majority of Islamic terrorists in Europe are on welfare, living in radicalized ghetto cultures with nothing to do but sit around the flat plotting the jihad all day at TAXPAYER’S EXPENSE. Muhammed ……used his time on welfare in Germany to set up his Islamist group,
A…….arrested in Washington state in route to blow up………………hatched his plot while on WELFARE IN MONTREAL.
A……..leader of a group of Australian Islamists, lived in Melbourne for TEN YEARS and never did a day’s work, now he’s been jailed for terrorism-related activities and taxpayers are ponying up $50,000 a year in benefits to his wife.
A….Britain’s most famous fire-breathing Iman while on WELFARE in London, and after being charged with incitement to murder and sent to jail, sued the government for extra benefits on top of the 1000 lbs. a week his family already received.
A………………a leading al Qaeda recruiter, became an Islamist big shot while on welfare in Britain, and only when he was discovered to have 150,000 lbs. in his bank account did the Department for Work and Pensions turn off the spigot. “

“can embrace Islam but cannot get out” that Islam is a religion one can only convert to, not from, then in the long run it is a threat to every free person on the planet. It cuts to the heart of what the MULTICULTURAL state is or believes itself to be. “Radical Islamism,” wrote Fouad Ajami, “has come to mock the very principle of nationality and citicizenship.”

My thoughts (Mary)
If we here in Canada thinks that we are safe from the Islamist threat think again because I say how long, before we also are living under Sharia law, 10 years ?, 20 years ? When the majority of them is what we call Canada.
Their birth rate is 5 times ours. We in Canada are not even reproducing ourselves nor are the Europeans, so Islam will be the future population of this country and the world whether we like it or not.
To equate Evangelical Christians and Islam as equal threats is strange when Evangelicals live out in the open in churches that you can go to and hear what the ministers are preaching to their congregations. The majority of Christians are self-supporting with jobs that support their families and are contributing members of society. But I say that you do have to fear a Sharia Law that enforces their way of life upon you. I call that a big loss of FREEDOM which we have in abundance in this country, so much so that we fund our own destruction through a bloated WELFARE system that can be used against us and we are asleep at the switch.


Jason Bo Green said...

I love how Adrian just assumes that I'm a Conservative when I'm not. I know, I know, it's easier to label people, Adrian, and it makes it easier for you to deal with the world that way - go ahead. Actually, I'm a gay, mainly vegetarian bicyclist in downtown Toronto who supports Al Gore and Ralph Nader, and won't vote for the NDP any longer because they've become too bone-headed to seriously tackle the issues I care about.

Amazing how criticizing your own side makes you into the other side, huh? Like that guy who left Blogging Tories because he criticized the Harper gov't too much. Not everyone fits into such neat compartments, Adrian.

How did the Left come into this? Hm, isn't it obvious? It's mostly the Left (which over 80 percent of my friends belong to) which leaps to defend this kind of "free speech". To them, it is "hate speech" from an American white male, but coming from an Arabic Islamic cleric, it's magically transformed into "freedom of expression".

Just like my womyn's studies graduate acquaintance who claims that Canada is an oppressive society that doesn't pay women equally and jails all Aboriginals because it is an imperialist power - but oppressing women with true subjugation and stoning the odd criminal to death is "diverse" (her word, honest to goodness).

It was Reagan that first led the charge for protection of gays in the USA - few people know it. As he said, "I didn't leave the Democrats, they left me." The NDP has left me (and Bob Rae). Does that mean I'm a "Conservative"? No. But please, if it's easier for you to wrap your head around by thinking I am - it's no big deal to me.

Jason Bo Green said...

Hi Jay,

I've been proposed to recently - and even if I'd accepted, I wouldn't consider myself too busy on the marriage file to give due attention to a larger threat on the horizon. We can become too entranced in the details that don't matter as much, and I don't want to be. Marriage is nice, but it's not the only thing in the world - and if marriage was taken away and replaced with civil unions, why would that matter so much? It's what John Kerry was for, as I understood him. I don't believe gay marriage is a human rights issue - compared to, say, female circumcision, or the 7 women currently awaiting death by stoning in Iran, it's low on my radar - regardless of how much it may involve me personally.

But thank you for your thoughts on the subject, I appreciate them.

Jason Bo Green said...

Jo, you're a sweetheart to let me slide like that. It happens very rarely. Promise.

Jason Bo Green said...

PS I agree that gay marriages are not "under threat" from Harper. If ANYTHING, they might be re-classified as civil unions -- which is just not a big enough deal for me to get upset or anything over.

Jason Bo Green said...

"Unless we are ok with seeing our granddaughters in burkas we better start finding some courage."

Isn't that hyperbole? By the time that happens, we will have been diluted by immigration to the point where our opinions don't matter much.

Um, how is that hyperbole? It's entirely possible women will be wearing burqas in France in 20 years. Why not here?

Oh, and does anyone want to take bets on how gay marriage will fly in a Muslim controlled France? Or anywhere else?

Maybe if we were a little more concerned about gays being put to death or beaten by state authorities, it would put the "threat" of the Harper government in perspective - there isn't one. If Ted Morton was PM, okay, he could do some damage, but Harper? Come on.

Jason Bo Green said...

I've always thought Christie Blatchford was a truly bad person. Jason Cherniak and Kate MacMillan are two sides of the same coin - they're both blinded and it doesn't matter what side you're on, it's a poor attitude. I find Blatchford's writing like that.

But I met her in real life once, and she's a tremendously charming and generous and fun person. Probably Cherniak is, too - they just don't krnow how to debate like humans, and need to argue like neanderthals instead.

liberal supporter said...

Don't worry Mary, "they" do reproduce faster, but you forgot about the culling. The pogrom will start soon enough. After the small atomic explosion somewhere in the States, George will have his mulligan. If there are several 10kiloton bombs, there will be several 10megaton bombs delivered to a few Muslim capitals. I think the Mecca and Medina ones, destroying the centre of Islam, will pretty much take the stuffing out of Islam itself, and your feared takeover will be at an end.

Jason Bo Green said...

Even if anyone in government were willing to bomb Mecca and Medina, LS (and no Western leader would), that wouldn't "the stuffing out of Islam". Would killing the Pope do so to Catholicism?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Jo, you're a sweetheart to let me slide like that.

Sweetheart! Wow. That's a new one. Sure beats 'gormless asshat' (one of RT's kinder phrases for me).

Jason Bo Green said...

RT said that??? I had the impression that guy never swore... eenteresting.

Jason Bo Green said...

PS Joanne, it's a terrible, overwrought book, but you might want to check out SELLING ILLUSIONS by Neil Bissoondath, in which the author, an immigrant, argues against multiculturalism and complains that it segregates and excludes him (and it was written in 94 or so).

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Jason - RT said that??? I had the impression that guy never swore... eenteresting.

Ha! As I said, that was RT on a good day. Once he called me the c-word. That caused quite a rift for a while.

Thanks for the tip about the book. I'll have to add that to my list of requests from our local library.

Red Tory said...

Oh, I'm so mean.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Imagine if Peter MacKay had called Belinda that in the House!