Thursday, January 18, 2007

Natives apart from Canadian Law?

The Hamilton Spectator reports that Toronto lawyer Stephen Ford is working towards a legal confirmation of what native protestors in Caledonia have been saying all along - that they should not be regarded as being subject to Canadian law.

Ford's long-term plan is to convince the Canadian courts they have no jurisdiction over native Canadians like Gibson who are charged with criminal offences on native lands.
( ... )

Eventually, if and when he finds a court to hear the constitutional arguments, he's expected to call expert witnesses in an attempt to prove that the Six Nations came to Canada as allies of the Crown and have remained a sovereign people.




This could have some interesting ramifications, to say the least.


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BTW, this thread about Hope Bay is in the archives now, but the comments are still going strong!

More here about Caledonia (Artifacts found).

22 comments:

Anonymous said...

a sovereign people, so I guess they wouldn't want social benefits from another Country, namely Canada.

Anonymous said...

Not 'apart from' Canadian law - Above.

A fence should be put up around their new 'territory' and border controls established - no one gets out.

Anonymous said...

I think it might be time to call their bluff, and treat them as a sovereign country, because I doubt very much if they've thought through all of the ramifications for themselves.

I doubt too much if the rest of Canada will suffer as much as they will.

A sovereign country will need its own economy, its own policing system, its own system of government, its own education system, its own border check-points, they will need passports to come into Canada.

Like a teenager who thinks it sucks at home, and needs a time-out on their own, before they come crawling back just for food and shelter....let them go.

anon #83

Spinks said...

Can't we all be Canadians? ;)

Anonymous said...

A can of worms!

Once the lawyers start to realize that the natives won't pay them ( go look up Tony Merchant!)...and start to wonder if it's all worth while...this will be back in the old sock drawer again!

On those Caledonia artifacts...dated at 9000 years they predate the presence of the Six Nations Claimants ancestors by 9 millenia.

How is anyone in their right mind going to tie the two together?

Oh yeah I forgot were talking about
the Natives...facts like their own ancestors did not arrive in the area until the 18th century don't matter!

Cherniak_WTF said...

SweaterGuy - natives enjoy special legal rights - these vary by region -

What I see is that you seem to promulgate the idea that all natives are deadbeats.

Shall we examine how many deadbeat racist white people are out there?

Zac said...

I suppose the white man will just have to continue to suffer....

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Not 'apart from' Canadian law - Above.

Well, I phrased it that way on purpose so as not to offend. I'm very politically-correct you see. lol!

Zac said...

Well, I phrased it that way on purpose so as not to offend. I'm very politically-correct you see.

Forget the political correctness, lets just come out with the inacurate facts, broad assumptions and overt racism, shall we?

Don't forget, Custard died for your sins!

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Zac, you never did actually say where you uh, stand on this. Do you think that the natives have reason to believe that they are apart from/above Canadian law?

Zac said...

Where I, uh, stand on this issue particularly important, as I haven't given the issue much thought or research, but I posted in reference to your commenters who have a distorted view of the situation of aboriginals in this country, such as those who see fit to demean aboriginals and treat them like defeatist welfare bums, incapable of doing anything but collect government hand outs. Or those who would like to take a reactionary stance on the issue and "fence" off this new "territory".

Lot's of negativity abounds when the subject of aboriginals is brought up around here. I find it rather disheartening and disturbing to hear the thoughts of the new "moderate" CPC.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

I find it rather disheartening and disturbing to hear the thoughts of the new "moderate" CPC.

That's quite an assumption, Zac. How do you know that some of those comments didn't belong to people with no party affiliation at all, or possibly NDP or Green? Don't you see that you are just as biased yourself when you talk like that?

Zac said...

How do you know that some of those comments didn't belong to people with no party affiliation at all, or possibly NDP or Green?

I highly doubt that you actually believe these are dippers.

Zac said...

My basic point Joanne is that these are very negative, and borderline discriminatory, sentiments against aboriginal Canadians and you should not be condoning them, unless, of course, you hold similar beliefs yourself.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

What have I condoned, Zac?

Zac said...

Unless you denounce such discriminatory talk, you are condoning it Joanne.

But then again, I’m starting to expect nothing less than cultural insensitivity around this place.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Unless you denounce such discriminatory talk, you are condoning it Joanne.

So unless I personally denounce each and every possible reference that is in any way bigotted, racist, sexist or whatever, then that automatically makes me the same?

Do I get a timeframe on that before I am judged?

Would you feel better if I asked you which comments should be deleted Zac? I could check in with you once a day perhaps and you could let me know.

Zac said...

Would you feel better if I asked you which comments should be deleted Zac?

Don't delete anything, simply say its inappropraite. That's all I'm saying.

But, in the grand scheme of things, I really couldn't care less, but it is your blog, I doubt you would want to have discriminatory comments on it.

On an aside, I did notice that your bigoted friend from Winnipeg's "shun the freaks" comments on your AIDS post is still there.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

its inappropraite.

Anonymous said...

For a conservative blog the actual post was pretty benign. The 'anonymous' commentors are usually more hard line, but in a country of racists (don't deny it, virtually every culture in the world is racist to some degree) the comments are also pretty benign. Unlike Oka or Burnt Church nobody is wading in with plans for violence. Unlike in Montreal where radio stations were gathering people for 'effigy burning' parties. Comments are pretty much the same here as the Globe and Mail's coverage, perhaps conservatives just have more free time.

I do find it funny that always a huge issue is the 'natives from away', except where there are none and its 'white people from away' which is rarely mentioned.

But look at something like municipal politics, say there was a land claim on a zoning issue between two people. Would a municipality, a level of government well known for inactivity, let that issue run on for FORTY YEARS after a court ordered them to settle it? Of course not.

But that is exactly what the feds do. The *&^%ed up government is obvious here, since the feds have NO jurisdiction over land in the provinces, yet forcibly took over ALL aspects of the 'native question', which pretty much has ONLY to do with land. Anybody else see the insanity of that? Think its an accident?

It's amazing that most canadians will gripe about how messed up their government is until somebody else actually stands up to it and points it out. People gripe and complain about all the 'money' they get, forgetting that they are already treated as 'sovereign' by OUR government-they have to pay for health care as well as public education. Not to mention that their money goes to white bureaucrats running it, as well as their hand picked native 'government', as is obvious in looking at many reserves.

But media AND government are usually happy to string out conflicts, that's what they live for, especially when it comes to natives, because you need some skirmishes to provide the 'background' so you don't have to actually look at what the issues are. The racists are useful to them as well, that way nobody actually looks at the issues or does anything about it.

Six Nations designated 40 areas as places for land claims. The government knew this, it happened in 1987, four years before they sold the land to the developer. But then they sold it anyway. Gee, hows that for fair play? So this is hardly 'new' stuff, I was graduating high school then!

This land is contested because at the time it was 'sold' back in 1841 (we still have the records) by a government which Canada IMPOSED on the natives. They were not their traditional leaders, and they were not entitled to speak for the people, who at the time had a far more advanced democracy than Canada does even today. So a government rep essentially showed up, found a native and said, "Hey tonto, sign this here and we'll give you six cases of booze and some copper pots for all this land". The native would have looked at the land and of course not even understood what it meant to 'buy' the land, and said 'what the hell, I can get some booze and cookware out of it'.

So those are the basic facts. It's weird because white guys like Jackie Vautour are something of a folk hero where they live because they 'stood up' to the big mean government.

The main drive of the levels of government is to keep white people from sympathizing with natives because they'll discover the natives want the same thing as most canadians-for responsible land use that will benefit them and canadians and not foreign investors and millionaires in Toronto, Montreal, Bermuda or Calgary. In New Brunswick, virtually the only job growth in forestry is from native foresters now, even while taxpayer money is shovelled to Fraser, Irving and UPN in 'technology partnerships' which of course is machines that put people out of work.

Natives, unlike canadians, actually use their land base responsibly and don't just hand it over to millionaires and foreigners. Perhaps the 'racism' in white people is simply the low self esteem of a people who realize the people their government has been screwing over for over a century are actually much smarter than they are.

saga said...

Yes there are some inappropriate comments here. Canadians have to start to face the truth that Canada acquired land fraudulently and will have to correct this soon, or face a lot of strife, for they have not forgotten... they know exactly what land where, when and by whom. We simply cannot ignore it forever.

Legally,sovereignty cannot be stolen, only surrendered. Thus, the case is solid. I just went to the first hearing on the sovereignty issue. It will be heard in Cayuga court in May.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Yes there are some inappropriate comments here.

Saga, could you please specify which ones are offensive to you? Thanks. I can delete any that you think are extreme.


Legally,sovereignty cannot be stolen, only surrendered. Thus, the case is solid. I just went to the first hearing on the sovereignty issue. It will be heard in Cayuga court in May.

I haven't heard anything about that in MSM. Please keep me posted. Thanks.