Friday, January 12, 2007

Debunk - Part Deux

Continuing on with the Kyoto theme...

Tuesday's Financial Post carried a similar story adjacent to the article by Peiser. In "Climate action would be suicidal", FP columnist Peter Foster gives his reasons for the lack of substance in Kyoto, which you can read for yourself.

Here is the interesting part:


...Kyoto was just one draconian step towards a much more draconian future.

It is hard to understand why the Conservatives do not hammer away at these facts. Instead, in the face of an alleged tsunami of public concern, matched only by public ignorance, the Conservatives have now allegedly "gone green." They are "consulting" with radical, unelected environmental NGOs. But then what can they do? There is an election coming and its most important feature may be that Canadians are enjoying unseasonally mild weather even as it is being used to scare them to death.

So the government is being held hostage to the political will of Jack Layton and the environmentalists; even more so now with Wajid Khan's move to the Tories having the net result of needing only the cooperation of the NDP to hold the balance of power (reinforced by Lapierre's recent resignation).


Climate change is an alleged "collective action" problem. That is, there is no point in doing anything unless every major or developing industrial power on earth signs on, and -- more importantly -- keeps to its commitments. Which they wouldn't. As it is, the absence of China and India from Kyoto -- nations likely destined to be this century's largest carbon emitters -- was one of the reasons why the United States wisely refused to sign on.

In any event, the nations that did sign on to Kyoto are almost all struggling to meet their targets. They have succeeded only in imposing even more deadweight bureaucracy...

"Deadweight bureaucracy" - The kind of thing that lefties love. Lots of unionized jobs feeding at the trough of the public purse.

Today's Post carries a column by Colby Cosh stating the case for a reasonable middle ground. We also have a couple of articles in the FP. Foster again talks about "hysteria over climate change" in Europe's Masterplan, and Lawrence Solomon talks about a theory of a 'crash' coming in the climate boom-bust cycle (Will the Sun Cool Us?).



All of which begs the question - Why did all this seemingly factual opposition suddenly come out of the media woodwork? My guess is that Canadian business is suddenly worrying that Harper's steady course to the centre is actually now veering far left; which should be a concern for us all.

And if Harper is moving far left, God help Canada.


* * * *


Update: Excellent debate going on about Kyoto at The Prairie Wrangler: Should Canada Drop Kyoto?

And speaking of the environment, Hargrove slams Layton over tough emission standards (SDA) - "It's Not Easy Being Green". Reminds me of a quote from the previous post - "a fundamental conflict between economic realism and environmental idealism".

Saturday Update: Dark Blue Tory - Kyoto's garbage...end of story.

And a few choice lines from a Sun reader (I don't agree with the whole letter, but this part is great):


Kudos to Lorrie Goldstein for prying off the lid of what is probably the biggest scam in the world, the Kyoto Protocol, or what I call the Wizard of Oz(one). This treaty is actually a giant wealth redistribution scheme, socialism on a global scale that taxes wealthy, industrialized countries by forcing them to buy carbon emission credits from poorer countries through a virtual (phony) carbon market, while not reducing the world's pollution by one single molecule. In other words, we pay other countries to make and take our garbage. Also, Kyoto will actually accelerate globalization by encouraging companies to move their factories from highly-regulated Canada to mass-polluter countries like India and China; thus lowering our standard of living. In effect it's socialism disguised as science by our environistas. No wonder Dion, Duceppe, and Layton love it...

29 comments:

JDot said...

Good post on this issue again, well done.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Thanks, jdot. Nice to have a little support.

Cherniak_WTF said...

To "debunk" you need facts.....

I'd recommend going over to red tory's this has been covered already and I'm not in the mood to copy/paste.....

Anonymous said...

there is no point in doing anything unless every major or developing industrial power on earth signs on, and -- more importantly -- keeps to its commitments.

Joanne, from the above quote it is obvious that whoever wrote this has no concerns whatsever about environment. No point in doing anything? Just because others won't do it, everyone else must also stop doing it? Somewhere, someone has to start doing something to bring everyone else in gradually otherwise "God help Canada".

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Joanne, I took it as the author referring to the Kyoto alone; not necessarily any other effort to help reduce pollution.

Anonymous said...

Peter Worthington has an article in the Toronto Sun "The Myths of Kyoto"....good article. But, I too wonder why articles like this weren't written earlier. I actually think it's because people started researching the Kyoto plan, and finding out what it is exactly. I was listening to Stephane Dion's interview with Dave Rutherford (630 Ched, in Edmonton) a few minutes ago. Dion is in Edmonton trying to make us like him.:-)

Anyway, Rutherford asked very pointed questions about how Kyoto would work, and why it doesn't make sense to buy emission credits and how that would actually "help" global warming. To say the least, Dion's explanation left me confused, as it did Rutherford and the callers who called in after the interview was over.

We just don't know enough about Kyoto, and what is out there to know, seems a ludicrous plan. Either it's not explained well, or it is explained well, and is just a really dumb idea.

I think it's the latter.

Back to the point though. I think that when people got tired of hearing Kyoto this, and Kyoto that, they finally decided to educate themselves about the plan, reading up on the science and politics. That's why we're hearing it bashed because the truth is coming out.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Peter Worthington has an article in the Toronto Sun "The Myths of Kyoto"....good article.

I linked to Worthington's article in the previous post. If you notice, the progressives are taking aim at the article writers rather than the subject matter, with the exception of my namesake here. ;)

Anonymous said...

After seeing RT's promise to never again darken your door...I thought
* Deja' Vu! *
I noticed that he did it with his trademark punkass smear...a creature of habit to the end

Time to post that picture maybe caption it with "Has anybody seen this guy?"

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Time to post that picture maybe caption it with "Has anybody seen this guy?"

Tempting, but I'll take the high road. Not going to lose any sleep over this, that's for sure.

Cherniak_WTF said...

Still no "debunking" over here, just a circle jerk... It's getting gooeey too...

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Still no "debunking" over here

Let's assume for the moment that all the articles, including those in the FP are lies.

So therefore, what? Kyoto is great?

I would think you progressives would be somewhat uncomfortable that Harper seems to be moving in that direction. It rather steals your thunder, doesn't it?

Cherniak_WTF said...

Harper and his epiphany is all about getting votes. Let’s not make any other pretense.

The FP article sounds like it was written by one cranky skeptic. The facts that you “cite” have to be proven. So far nothing has been debunked.

Kyoto is not a magic bullet. It is a framework.

As for the greening of Harper, it still has to be seen. But let’s say that he has seen the polls and knows he has to green to win that next majority – in what way does it steal “thunder”?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

But let’s say that he has seen the polls and knows he has to green to win that next majority – in what way does it steal “thunder”?

That is the platform of Dion, Layton and May. So if Harper sees the Kyoto light, what will their issues be?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

BTW, what has been "debunked" is that Kyoto is in any way practical, which is what the EU is finding.

Anonymous said...

Lets say he has seen the polls, goes green and wins a majority, and then does a Trudeau and tells the greens to go f*$# themselves cause he's in for 4 years more. New post up.

Anonymous said...

Jo...
Notice how the criticisms leveled wt your post are not directed at the content of the articles you link to?

Notice how any criticism of Kyoto itself meets with a ..shoot the messenger approach?

Ongoing demonstrations by the leftoids that they are ALL full of **it!

Kudos to you for expanding your resources and staying with you themes!

BTW - Dion today is in AB with a very different message than what he offered his PQ audiences!

Not that it will make any difference!
Have a great weekend.....

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Notice how any criticism of Kyoto itself meets with a ..shoot the messenger approach?

You noticed that too, eh?

BTW - Dion today is in AB with a very different message than what he offered his PQ audiences!

I hope you give us a report. Have a great weekend yourself, PGP.

Anonymous said...

I did an article up on Kyoto a while back, and this section of it sums up my thoughts on the matter:

I am but a simple businessman.

Everyday I wake up, put my pants on one leg at a time, grab a coffee on the way out the door, and embroil myself in 30 minutes of obscenely heavy traffic, only to find myself ensconced in front of my computer, attempting to do my small part to make the world a shittier place to live in.

Thanks to the efforts of the David Suzuki’s, Elizabeth May’s, the Chirac’s and the UN. I have in the last 5 years specifically discovered that I am Satan. That I am responsible for virtually everything bad that has happened to "Mother Earth".

These wonderously viscious, callously irresponsible, and yet seemingly unstoppable fonts of f#*$ed up wisdom, have catagorically blamed you and me for every mudslide, earthquake, hurricane, flood, famine and the list goes on and on, disaster that has been inflicted upon the earth.

Why you ask?

Well, I create and sell software applications. By default, I am one of the reasons the earth is dying.

Lucky me.

My neighbor builds boats… Man, is he burning on the final day. Me, I’ll get a hot foot, him, he gets the toaster oven treatment according to the tree huggers of the world.

Now if only I could actually understand the impact I, and my 6.5 billion brothers and sisters in sin, are really having on the world. I mean without the agenda attached.

Apparently that’s to much to ask of our media and governments. Apparently truth and science are irrelevent, and we’ve decided that the DisneyLand version of events, straight out of toonsville, is the bible of information for which we will henceforth decide the fate of humanity, and by default, the earth.

Shhhhh! Don't put any science in the message. Remember we have to publish everything at a grade 3 to 8 reading level because Canadians are stupid, and we wouldn't want them to start understanding what we say, or challenging what we want them to think.

The fact that the earth is 4.5 billion years old, and man has been around for about 10 million years, not withstanding. It is not germaine that the earth has seen literally tens of millions of species come and go from its environment in it’s antiquity, because mankind has a special pass.

That’s right, we apparently have some sort of universal "We’re more important than everything else" card, and therefore we deserve to completely bypass the natural cycle of events and exist forever. The Universe merely being the ultimate grocery store… we just haven’t signed up for our loyalty cards yet.

Sometimes I read the articles and "proclimations" of the environmentalists, and I laugh at the cosmic tunnel vision they have. The world is suffering!!! We are going to kill everything if we keep up what we are doing!!!

Of course, it never occurs to any of these providers of death predicitions that maybe the very distruction we cause is part of the cycle of natural life we are part of. Well... survival is an instinct afterall, so who can blame them.

I have the luxury of being part of a childless family. My wife and I decided early on we didn't want to bring kids into the world for a variety of reasons, most of which are purely self-serving and selfish. Whatever shit we about to bring down on our collective heads, fact or fiction... I'll be dead right around the time it really starts to go full-swing, so I don't give a damn in that respect.

Others of you, having children, understandably might have a different outlook.

Regardless, we need truth, and I like to think we are smart enough to understand the truth.

Is it so much to ask of our leaders? Apparently.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Well said, J.C. Truth, it would seem, is a rare commodity in politics. Thanks for the repost. It is a classic.

vicki said...

Good rant joe c! And if you are the devil , the activists( and libs and dippers) think Harper is god of the weather.We know we can take responsibilty for pollution on the ground but junkscience is yet to explain 'anthrogenic climate change', and how a government can actually control the weather has not been proven.

liberal supporter said...

Wow joe, you've really got the cult of victimhood thing down pat. I thought that was the realm of the NDP, but oops I forgot, you folks are in bed with them now.

Good luck!

Paul said...

know we can take responsibilty for pollution on the ground but junkscience is yet to explain 'anthrogenic climate change', and how a government can actually control the weather has not been proven.

Another gem from the one we call Vicki. Did anyone say that Harper controls the weather?

Anonymous said...

paul...exactly...so why the demands for the CPC to get in to 'climate control'?...guess you missed that...
gems r us

paul said...

so why the demands for the CPC to get in to 'climate control'

Demands? No one's demanding. Harper, all of a sudden, has a fascination with climate change.

Anonymous said...

The "attack the messenger" method has proven successful for the so-called progressives up until now. I get to see it in my work often. If the evidence is damning, attack the methodology of evidence collection. If the methodology proves unassailable, attack the credibility of the individual officer.

We have to come up with a better name for the so-called progressives since their idea of progress does not seem particularly progressive to my conservative eyes.

Cherniak_WTF said...

BTW - Dion today is in AB with a very different message than what he offered his PQ audiences!
I've had the pleasure of a few press conferences with Harper and Ambrose in Quebec...
Guess what? Different messages...
Don't let politics get in the way or your reality sweater guy...

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Mac - ...We have to come up with a better name for the so-called progressives since their idea of progress does not seem particularly progressive to my conservative eyes.

As always, very insightful. You nailed their debate methodology, although there are a few exceptions.

Let's see. Progressives who actually debate rather than resort to name-calling and attacks. I can think of a few - The other Joanne, Zac, Riley (whatever he is these days), um I'm sure there are more...


Another name other than "Progressives"? That could be a great topic for a whole other post! Thanks for the idea, Mac. :)

Swift said...

Due to personal reasons I have been late in posting a response to Jay's comments in the environmental double standards thread. (I'm moving to the Great White North next week. It will be an east-west trip instesd of a north-south trip to visit Joanne's favourite fishing hole.) The response is now posted.

Jay and Joanne were the only two who tried to answer my one question quiz on greenhouse gases. Both got it wrong. Joanne at least realized that the answer was D. The result of the quiz just reflects the misinformation that is propogated by the enviornmental lobby and repeated by the MSM. The gas that contributes most to the earth's greenhouse effect is WATER VAPOUR. It's not even close. If you include clouds, about 95% of the greenhouse effect is caused by water, most of the effect is water vapour itself.

Here is the link to an explanation of greenhouse gas contributions (it's fairly readable for those who are not versed in science, at least compoared to some others) www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html

Joanne will have to battle the forces of ignorance and evil without me for the next couple of weeks until I get established in my new digs. She does a pretty good job without my help anyway. Of course until my computer gets packrd up I might drop in for a quick look and comment.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Swift - Moving? Wow. I hope wherever it is you will keep visiting Joanne's Journey!

So I was partially right eh? Water vapour! Imagine that. Who knew.

All the best, Swift!

If anyone wants to check out the extremely interesting debate between Swift and Jay, please see this link - Environmental Double Standard. These two guys are well-matched in this debate, and I didn't even see much name-calling.