Wednesday, November 28, 2007

You can't teach an old Kyoto new tricks - Updated

Steve Janke explains Stephane Dion's sad and tragic flaw.


* * * *
Wednesday Update: Excellent commentary by L. Ian MacDonald - Angry while men, unplugged.

Harper's position is "No more Kyoto Kool Aid." He's not drinking it, and more to the point, he's not selling it. While Harper once said the science of climate change was inconclusive, leading to Dion's charge he was a climate-change denier (as in Holocaust denier, get it?), he now acknowledges it is the most urgent global issue of our time.

No more Kyoto Kool Aid.

Heh. I'll drink to that.


Chantel Hebert - Dion hasn't benefited from green debate.


26 comments:

Christian Conservative said...

William Lyon Mackenzie King the Second? (minus the majorities, of course)

Gayle said...

That completely explains the fact Dion wanted an election over the Throne speech and yet he listened to his caucus and agreed to go along with their wishes.

You know the conservatives are hurting when their bloggers receive the call to arms to push the "Dion is not a leader" theme...

Gabby in QC said...

"That completely explains the fact Dion wanted an election over the Throne speech ..."

Do you mean to tell me that Dion was ... how shall I put it ... misleading? obfuscating? fudging? equivocating? dissimulating? faking it? lying? when he said with such certainty that Canadians did not want an election at the time, and thus decided to abstain on a vote on the Throne speech?

Möbius said...

That completely explains the fact Dion wanted an election over the Throne speech and yet he listened to his caucus and agreed to go along with their wishes.

You know the conservatives are hurting when their bloggers receive the call to arms to push the "Dion is not a leader" theme...


A leader would have then had an election over the throne speech. You're contradicting yourself.

Frankly, he will not force an election he cannot win, and I don't see any circumstances in which he could do better than another CPC minority. I suspect we'll go the polls on the proscribed date.

Platty said...

"You know the conservatives are hurting when.."

Yeah, you keep telling yourself that it's the Conservatives that are hurting Gayle.

Hey, here's an idea, crack a newspaper.


===

Steve Janke said...

"That completely explains the fact Dion wanted an election over the Throne speech and yet he listened to his caucus and agreed to go along with their wishes."

Good point, but if you read the original article carefully, this seems to be an ongoing problem that has gotten worse with time. The insiders suggest that Dion's isolation has become more severe and is now at the point when no one talks to him, and he listens to no one. Of course, Dion can't vote down the government by himself, and at some point the voice of the caucus must be heard. But between those unavoidable moments when the party is forced together, these people are saying Dion and everyone else go their separate ways.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Thanks for dropping by, Steve.

I think Dion is one of those classic academics who is brilliant but has trouble relating to people. A lack of emotional intelligence perhaps.

This man would never make a good schmoozer, for example.

On another matter, if you're ever looking for something else to investigate, we have been puzzling over this for a while now.

Thanks.

Gayle said...

Steve

Pardon me if I think this little blog you quoted (I note it was not an article for the Hill Times) is a little conveniently timed, and a little suspicious (he talks to his dog, but not to his advisors? - please).

Where I think there may be a grain of truth is in the fact that Dion has been plagued by these so-called liberal insiders giving anonymous interviews to the media. Perhaps he knows who is doing that, and he is freezing them out. I certainly do not think he can be blamed for that, however that does not mean he is ignoring everyone.

Despite the fact that people like mobius and platty think otherwise, there is little question Harper has taken a hit over his non-agreement over hard targets (indeed, there is a whole thread below this one complaining about the media treatment over that). Then you have this whole Schreiber thing, and the government's apparent attempt to sideline the whole thing by refusing to delay the extradition. Finally, there is the odd (non) position on the death penalty (I say non-position because they have yet to be clear on what that position is).

Three weeks ago all you heard about was Dion's leadership problems - now we have moved on. You cannot deny it would help the CPC if they could change the story back to Dion.

mobius - not everyone defines leadership by silencing your MP's and dictating terms. Dion is considered to be a consensus builder. He does listen to the people around him. If he did not, I assure you we would be in election mode right now.

Anonymous said...

gayle...you are spinning again. If 'insiders' are complaining about Dion being 'out of touch' do you not think we would be hearing 'insiders' in the CPC complaining about Harper?
The media seem to be the only ones complaining about Harper being a 'control freak'.
A good leader gets respect.Harper has the respect of his party members.

Anonymous said...

"..now we have moved on.." No Gayle Dion's moving backward by revisiting the whole environmental enchillada.

If a real leader wanted an election over the Throne speech we'd have had one by now.

He has nothing to fight an election on and no cash with which to do it.

I'm more inclined to believe the liberal insiders.

Alberta Girl said...

"Where I think there may be a grain of truth is in the fact that Dion has been plagued by these so-called liberal insiders giving anonymous interviews to the media. Perhaps he knows who is doing that, and he is freezing them out. I certainly do not think he can be blamed for that, however that does not mean he is ignoring everyone."

Gayle - Re-read what you wrote above then change Dion to Harper, Liberal insiders to "journalists".

Yet I have read (in fact you do it in a comment further down) you and many other liberal bloggers refer to how horrible Steven Harper is to the media.

Hmmmm. Check out National NewsWatch today (or any day actually) and read all the negative Headlines and Editorial Headlines.

So it is OK for Dion to do it but not Harper? When Dion does it - he is smart when Harper does it with journalists, he is a control freak.....hmmmmm

Once again - Liberal Hypocrasy rears its ugly head.

Gayle said...

Apples and oranges AG. I am well aware of the conservative paranoia relating to the media. If the media prints or airs something that shows the conservatives in a negative light it is because they are biased. If they show the conservatives in a positive light they are non-partisan and objective.

liberal supporter said...

If you want to see someone with a "sad and tragic flaw", look no further than "johnathon" who has been spamming RT's with many dozens of duplicate messages this morning.

He's one of yours, or at least spouts your talking points.

Lee said...

But, But, But, Gayle.
The truth is that when the media reports truthfully and factually,it is bound to be favorable to the Conservatives.

tori said...

oi

and when the RCMP investigation into IT came out during the last federal election, liberals were...what was your word...right- paranoid- that the media were out to get them.

It's partisan politics, gayle. Rightly or wrongly, it happens on both sides of the political fence. Ipsos is a conservative pollster until they come up with good numbers for the libs, and then they are a non-partisan public opinion agency. The Toronto Star is a liberal rag until they start publishing stories that are negative to the Liberal Party. I could go on and on.

In terms of caucus solidarity, I think it is hilarious when people call harper out on his "control" tendencies, yet the same control used by Dion in house votes (or abstentions) is either justified or fair...when both Harper and Dion are guilty of caucus whipping.
You can try to justify it all you want for the particular side you support, but at the end of the day, it's the exact same thing.

Anonymous said...

Gayle - let us introduce you to Jason Cherniak's blog, where spinning reigns supreme.

I chalk it up to all the years of entitlements.

MC said...

Gayle, I know its a little off topic but you brought the whole "Schreiber thing" up so...

First all good Liberals were apoplectic because they thought that PMSH had interfered in the judicial process by having Schreiber whisked away just as his latest change of story became public knowledge (no mention of the fact that Schreiber had sent identical letters to everybody and their dog, Kyoto, not just Harper). Now, all good Liberals are apoplectic because PMSH will NOT interfere in the judicial process and halt Schreiber's well deserved extradition. Hell, all of the Liberals in the HoC cannot even agree on what should be done in this case. The least you (Liberals, not you personally) could do, when manufacturing a scandal, is pick a consistent thing to be outraged over.

The Liberals are quickly becoming the Party of Perpetual Outrage and its starting to look like shouting into the wind if you ask me.

The slow march to irrelevance continues.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

look no further than "johnathon" who has been spamming RT's with many dozens of duplicate messages this morning.

'RT' who?

maryT said...

Gayle, if Dion is talking to his dog he is just following liberal leaders of the past. Every heard of Mackenzie King and his talks with his dead mother. At least the dog is still alive.
PMSH called an inquiry, as the liberals wanted. Now the libs are saying he interferred by calling the inquiry. It is the ethics committee that is interferring by going with their inquiry. How was PMSH supposed to know that Pat Martin would do this.
Regardless, no info will come out of KS when he appears. He is blackmailing the government and Canadians. Just wait till he throws a curve at the liberals and says he gave money to Chretain or Paul Martin. (where did Paul get the money to buy CSL)
Just announced, KS is on his way to Ottawa.

Gayle said...

"It's partisan politics, gayle. Rightly or wrongly, it happens on both sides of the political fence."

If I gave you the impression I disagree with that then I apologize.

Indeed, I have found myself reacting negatively almost every time I watch Duffy, but I am learning to recognize where my biases colour the way I perceive the biases of others.

That said, I do not see a huge libloggers campaign against the MSM, like I see on many BT blogs.

In any event, my comment was meant only to address AG.

tori said...

"That said, I do not see a huge libloggers campaign against the MSM, like I see on many BT blogs."

but you did it again :)

I don't mean to pick on you, gayle...just lately I've been chuckling over watchng people's biases form behavior.

Come on. Ever time a poll comes out that shows the conservatives up, the liblogs crew do everything humanly possible to spin- and it usually involves a rendition of "that polling company is in the pockets of the CPC", or "everyone knows they always poll in favor of the conservatives".

Alternately, when a recent poll came out that showed a 3 point drop for the CPC and a 1 point increase, libloggers get all excited- even though the movement is all in the MOE and even though they just dissed that polling company as being in the conservative favour.

it's crazy. and by no means am i saying that you are the only guilty party, gayle. everyone does it, of every political stripe. I do it, too. It's human nature to not find fault with the group you align yourself to, but see the other side as homogenious in their views (right LS?...btw, jonathan does not speak for me) and as all bad.

I do long for a time when we can see each other not as adversaries, but as people who experience similar things and have a desire to make things better. Unfortunately, the way our political system is set up, it encourages an adversarial take on things.

Anonymous said...

you see no MSM bias against the Liberals gayle because it doesn't exist....pure and simple.

Gayle said...

tori - I am not sure how many ways I can say I agree with you before you believe me.

I guess we can spend a bunch of time picking apart each others' posts to show the bias, but since we each admit we are biased what would be the point?

Möbius said...

mobius - not everyone defines leadership by silencing your MP's and dictating terms. Dion is considered to be a consensus builder. He does listen to the people around him. If he did not, I assure you we would be in election mode right now.

Silencing and dictating like Chretien?

Dion wanting an election is a complete fabrication. He's using this "caucus" disagreement to appear like he wants to go, but is being held back. Don't be so naive, honestly. If he wants an election with the numbers he's seeing now, he's not thinking straight. Does he want to run another opposition term, to a minority or majority CPC government?

Möbius said...

He's one of yours, or at least spouts your talking points.

You don't know what "mine" are, frankly.

Gayle said...

mobius - you may think it is a fabrication but it was widely reported to be the case. Whether or not you believe it does not determine the veracity.