Wednesday, November 21, 2007

More mud-slinging

Peter Van Loan and Dalton McGuinty are still going at it.

A reader in the previous post alerted me that McGuinty's personal attack-dog is courageously defending him though.

Wow, that Hon. Barney Rubble line is clever, Warren.

Right.

Good thing Dalton has you to defend him, boy. That way he can keep his hands clean.


* * * *
Update: Tony's Viewpoint - Ontario Premier McGuinty's latest tantrum.

McGuinty won't be bullied! Newstalk 570.



QP Update: McGuinty's big Liberal federal cousins went to bat for him in Question Period this afternoon. No partisanship there.

Shame, shame!

This is somewhat related in terms of Liberal QP tactics: Trusty Tory - Liberals accuse Canadian Troops of committing war crimes.



36 comments:

Barbara said...

It's always amazed me how negative things can be said about a man's appearance, but never a woman's. Remember everyone's outrage when Belinda was referred to as a dog? Or the outrage when Warren suggested a woman liked to bake cookies? Imagine if he referred to Libby Davies as the Pillsbury doughboy? What a hypocrit!

Greg said...

Joanne, what do you think of the bill? Do you agree Ontario should not get its full representation in the Commons? Personally, I think McGuinty is a goof, but he does have a point.

Calgary Junkie said...

The LPC position on this ... Conservatives Pit Province Against Province in Flawed Formula for Democratic Reform

"Both the province of Quebec and the province of Ontario have expressed serious concerns about the proposed redistribution of seats, with Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty pointing to the fact that Ontario will be left with the largest average riding size in the country."

What the LPC press release omits is that Quebec politicians are advocating the status quo, i.e. no change in the seat distribution.

Which of course puts Dion in a difficult position, either favoring his larger Ontario caucus or his influential Quebec caucus. Harper obviously had the same kind of dilemna, and came up with this 10 seat compromise for Ontario.

There is a danger here for Dion, if he makes a big fuss out of this. For example, Harper could package together a "Democratic Reform" omnibus bill (Senate term limits, Senate elections, seat redistribution, and possibly WCB changes). This is admittedly a long-shot, but if the Opposition thwarts his democratic reforms, its one way for Harper to force the issue to a non-confidence vote.

Caveat said...

I think Ontario has too many seats now and I would actually like to see Toronto ridings made larger so there are fewer of them.

The way it is currently, corrupt Ontario is dictating to the rest of the country. People out west and out east don't feel their voice counts. This is divisive and unfair.

I fully agree that BC and Alberta should get more representation and I'm not particularly pleased that Ontario is getting more seats at all.

I'm also pretty sick of McGuinty's whining and snivelling. I don't know if I can take four more years of total inadequacy at Queen's Park.

Kinsella's comments are of the schoolyard variety, per usual. Insufferably pompous old flatte comes to mind.

Greg said...

Caveat, I don't begrudge B.C. and Alberta getting more seats (their representation does not match their populations after all), but it is unjust to deny Ontario the same treatment given its current representation does not match its population either.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps this hinges on our growth future here in Ontario? I don't see as we're a growth economy at the moment....anyone else?

Consider the thousands of lost manufacturing jobs, and that the McGuinty gov't has overestimated the province's econimic growth....I see a slide on an increase.....perhaps Harper and Flaherty see it too?

Also, I'm hard pressed to see how having more Ontario seats filled will do Ontarians who need real representation any good at all.

I agree with caveat to a point. Rural and northern Ontario are seriously mis-represented by the urbancentrics of the province.

I think Dalton's playing a huge game of diversion. Diversion from what? His sorry record, and what he's facing when he gets back to work - crumbling infrastructure, teacher union contracts, continued doctor shortage, energy crunch, autistic children and their families.

Prove to me that more representation will guarantee anything close to a benefit for taxpayers and I'll be the first one to support Ontario having more seats. Right now it's falling on deaf ears.

Re: Barbara's right too. Might Warren Kinsella get his shorts in a knot if we were to tag provincial Liberals with a few fictional character labels?

Let's begin and find out, I'll start:

McGuinty - Oz's Tin Man

Dwight Duncan - Deputy Dawg

Jim Watson - Beeker from the Muppets.

Mike Brown - Jed Clampett

David Caplan - Fred Flintstone

Michael Bryant - Howdy Doody

Greg Sorbara - Alice in Wonderland's Cheshire Cat

next........

maryT said...

Hopefully those 10 new seats would not be filled by liberals, and not be in TO.
o/t, but, has anyone audited those 5 liberals with over 25,000 phone bills. Where and who did they phone and what time were the calls. How many were personal.

Anonymous said...

What Greg and many others fail to understand is the seat count is not based strictly on population. Provinces such as Ontario have a larger population of course, but much of that is centralized into places such as Toronto, whereas some provinces and territories have their population spread over a larger area with population less centralized into specific areas.

Some ridings are hamstrung by size, which although the MP might have fewer constituents, the amount of time spent on such things as travel weigh into it.

Or perhaps maybe the Conservatives realize that since manufacturing in Ontario is in a nosedive because of McGuinty's policies that Ontario's projected population growth is skewered.
The fact that they are ready to throw in another large hydro rate increase will just increase the problem, not to mention the consumers driving the economy have less money to spend after McGuinty's policies.( Although I hear the Ontario Cricket Club is thriving under his leadership).

paulstuff

Anonymous said...

Why does PEI have 4 seats in the Commons? Population less than 200000. It is because PEI can not have less seats than their Senate seats which is 4. Alberta with a population of 3 million has only 6 Senate seats. Quesbec at Confederation was supposed to be an "equal" partner NOT 20% seats

We can not reform the Federal Government parliments without a massive change to the Constitution and that will never happen.

Ontario will just have to accept the fact that they have larger riding populations than much of the rest of the country. Ontario benefits by having the capital in Ottawa - try making it home for the weekend to Yukon or Northern BC.

West Coast Teddi

Anonymous said...

anon 10:49 - really funny...and very accurate. If it's good enough for Kinsella.....fair is fair. How about the Federal Liberal caucus? No seperated at birth likenesses there?


To all the bloggers from out west - I live in rural Ontario, and feel that provincially we have little representation because our MPP seems content being a backbencher, and our Federal Liberal MP is coasting to retirement.

We might as well have no one in each house for all our efforts.

I think McGuinty's making noises at the feds., as some have said before me to make it appear like he's doing something.

Ontario's in a mess, although the Liberals will spin to the contrary.....wait for it.

Anonymous said...

Hi , I’m the Ranting Tory at the sootoday.com web site under the columns section. I’m the Conservative voice in an NDP strong hold , so you can imagine the rhetoric I face daily over there.I have taken a liking to your stuff. Would you be objectionable if I were to post to the odd piece or two from your blog?

If you like , you can create a registered login and post it over there yourself.

Boy those Liberals are really making asses out of themselves , I would agree.

Greg said...

Ontario benefits by having the capital in Ottawa

Speaking as an Ontarian, I would dispute your premise that Ottawa is a benefit to anyone.

Greg said...

fail to understand is the seat count is not based strictly on population.

I understand it perfectly and want to change it. And in case anyone is wondering, I do not now, nor have I ever, lived in Toronto.

Anonymous said...

Did Dion hire Kinsella? I thought Warren was through with the federal party, no?

Anonymous said...

Van Loan as crossed the line here - he shouldn't be attacking premiers - what a loser, really. He should be rooting for his own province.

Approx 40% of the population in Canada lives in Ontario and approx 40% of the taxes Ottawa received is from Ontario - you're damn right we should be represented properly.

I'm watching to see if any of the Ontario MP's stick up for their province - if not, they don't deserve to be re-elected.

I think our federal government desperately need lessons in statesmanship - they are so embarrassing. Grow up for God's sake.

Anonymous said...

"I'm watching to see if any of the Ontario MP's stick up for their province - if not, they don't deserve to be re-elected.

I think our federal government desperately need lessons in statesmanship - they are so embarrassing. Grow up for God's sake."

Exactly which Liberal MP's have stuck up for Ontario since 1993? Joe Commuzzi did this year and what happened? Do some research and you will find that by decrentaziling the control by the federal government, the provinces, including Ontario,will benefit greatly. This is a plank of the Conservative platform.

And under the new equalization formula, Ontario and Quebec were the biggest winners, with Ontario getting over $1 billion a year more. So tell me, what do you think McGuinty will use the money for? Health care? Nope. He is already using the $2 billion from the "health tax levy" and putting into general coffers, where Ontarians are rewarded with such things as a financial rich Ontario Cricket Club. The infrastructure? Nothing announced by McGuinty other than the billions Ontario will use in the coming years from the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. Tax relief? HAHAHA.

Nope, look for the extra loot to be spent on such things as hefty raises for the teacher and public service unions, the ones who ran all those "Non-Liberal" campaign ads in the recent election.

Lee said...

Under the original formula, Ontario would have gotten even less seats.
Mr. Van Loan has pointed this out.
Seems to have fallen on deaf ears.

Greg said...

Under the original formula, Ontario would have gotten even less seats.
Mr. Van Loan has pointed this out.
Seems to have fallen on deaf ears


It has fallen on deaf ears because it is a false dilemma. We are not necessarily limited to the choice between the old bill and the new bill. The new bill can be amended to take Ontario's concerns into consideration. Only if the government refuses to change the bill are we stuck in Mr. Van Loan's impossible situation. So, it would seem, the ball is in the government's court.

Anonymous said...

Apparently the gov't of Ontario has been asking for this for years and the then governing liberal lemmings did what exactly?


NOTHING. Neither did Dalton McGuinty.

Just what is it about the additional 10 seats that's worse than no more seats at all.

It's tough realizing that your province is the envy of the country isn't it Ontario?

Anonymous said...

"It has fallen on deaf ears because it is a false dilemma. We are not necessarily limited to the choice between the old bill and the new bill. The new bill can be amended to take Ontario's concerns into consideration. Only if the government refuses to change the bill are we stuck in Mr. Van Loan's impossible situation. So, it would seem, the ball is in the government's court."

Well, apparently when the government puts forth legislation it is legislation that they think is the proper and fair way to go. Kind of like Chretien telling the premiers to "take it or leave it" when negotiating a new health accord. McGuinty is doing this for one reason. Ontario's manufacturing sector is in a meltdown, and with increased taxes and utility costs for business it won't get any better.

Not to mention you have the dim-witted mayor of Toronto blaming Mcguinty and Harper for his inability to put a curb on spending and hiring, instead blaming everyone els, including Mike Harris and Mel Lastman.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Would you be objectionable if I were to post to the odd piece or two from your blog?

Feel free, Ranting Tory (Timothy?) I noticed you asked a few other BT's as well. I only ask that you give proper credit or link to anything I've written. Thanks.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Anon at 01:06:00 PM EST - You nailed it. Well said.

Anonymous said...

PETER VANLOAN FOR ONTARIO PC LEADER!!

THEN PREMIER.

Hey, maybe THAT's why Kinsella's ventured into federal waters...he sees VanLoan as a threat to the Ontario entitlement empire?

Lord Kitchener's Own said...

The "Ontario entitlement empire???"

Gee, we think we're "entitled" to representation in parliament equal to our percentage of the population. How horrible!

The Premier of my province is demanding that my vote be equal in weight to the votes of Canadians in B.C. and Alberta. Do I think I'm "entitled" to equal representation?

Damned straight I do.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

PETER VANLOAN FOR ONTARIO PC LEADER!!

Omigosh! That would be awesome!!

Anonymous said...

"The Premier of my province is demanding that my vote be equal in weight to the votes of Canadians in B.C. and Alberta. Do I think I'm "entitled" to equal representation?

Damned straight I do."

Wonderful proposition, but impossible to enact. Maybe if every province was the same size or had the same number of people per square mile. PEI has four seats. You wanna be the one to take them away? You want an MP in the Territories to cover thousands of miles in his riding because McGuinty demands representation by population? Sorry, but the legislation put forward is far better than what Ontarians have today. (I'm one).

I myself would be happier if my premier started addressing real issues, like the loss of manufacturing jobs, Ontarians losing and without family doctors, the rise in youth crime, the slumping tourist industry, crumbling infrastructure, etc., rather than just focusing on something just to deflect his own governments shortcomings.

liberal supporter said...

I myself would be happier if my premier started addressing real issues, like the loss of manufacturing jobs

A big part of that involved getting the domestic car industry building hybrid cars. Due to tax laws that allowed writing off most of an SUV in the US, plus artificially low oil prices, and a good measure of bad decisions, the domestics have not done this.

Kyoto was intended to pump significant money (5 billion a year) into research and development, the results of which support manufacturing. Some of that money would be providing direct investment, plus guaranteed markets (e.g. mandated purchase of energy efficient vehicles for government fleets).

Renege on international treaties and all kinds of consequences follow. Take one piece away, and others start to fall apart.

maryT said...

Oh oh, mayor of TO comes out in support of the Riders. Is there a chance that polls show lots of improvements for PMSH in Ontario, and liberals are scared. Why else would both Dion and Dalton try to start an east vs west fight. Wont work this time. What if those new mps vote ndp and conservative.
With new seats in AB at least one of them might vote liberal, depends where they are. BC could get more ndp seats.
Another confidence vote coming soon, will Dion sit on his hands again

Gayle said...

"Hopefully those 10 new seats would not be filled by liberals, and not be in TO."

Which is the real reason why Harper chose this formula, and why so many of you support it, mental acrobatics aside.

"With new seats in AB at least one of them might vote liberal, depends where they are."

Nope. The other day I read they are going to Calgary and rural areas. The only chance for a liberal seat is in Edmonton.

Funny how that works.

Anonymous said...

Actually LS, Kyoto was meant to transfer monies to other countries as payment for not meeting our targets. One country that receives payments under Kyoto is China, who never had any targets and were allowed to increase their emissions, and just happens to be one of the countries where our manufacturing sector jobs are being lost to.

The tax laws you allude to in the U.S. allow tax reductions for all vehicles, not just SUV's. Sales of SUV's and Pickups are a reflection of what was an enormous new housing marker, as well as a hot renovation market. When the U.S. housing market gets hot again you will see a rise in large vehicle sales. You can only fit so many 2X4s in a Yugo.

I've been in the auto industry for 30 years, and yes, there are too many bad mangement decisions to count. The domestic makers are now getting their hybrid programs in gear, and you should see some gains in this market within a few years.

But as long as Mcguinty is more focused on issues like banning sushi, pitbulls, giving out grants to things like the Ontario cricket club, well, it sucks to live here.

Lets put this in a better perspective. Mcguinty slammed the Harris government for not extending autistic funding programs past age six. Promised to change it, then took those kids parents to court to fight against keeping his promise. Extending the funding past age 6 would cost about $6 million a year. Mcguinty said this was not do-able, and then gave the Ontario Cricket Club $1 million alone. C'mon.

Gabby in QC said...

Anonymous @ Wed Nov 21, 12:11:00 PM EST:
"Did Dion hire Kinsella? I thought Warren was through with the federal party, no?"

Hmmm, I think you're on to something ...

Caveat said...

Smitherman - Yosemite Sam
Pupatello - Moonbeam McSwine
Cansfield - June Cleaver
Wynne - Lucy Van Pelt
Bradley - Jughead
Levac - Odeo Cologni

Fun game!

Greg said...

Well, apparently when the government puts forth legislation it is legislation that they think is the proper and fair way to go. Kind of like Chretien telling the premiers to "take it or leave it"

Ah, the standard Tory defence "We are just as bad as the Liberals". The fact is, your party is in the wrong here and for absolutely no good reason. There is a really easy fix for this problem, and for some inexplicable reason the PM will not take it.

Greg said...

Anyone, conservative or liberal who states that Ontario should automatically get more seats based on population is starting from a false assumption, arguing from incorrect facts, and using baseless math. Point out the specific line in the constitution that spells that out or quit it. As a person born, raised and always living in Ontario, the thought of 40% of the ridings being given to Ontario scares the crap out of me. I would honestly consider moving for the first time. Probably to Alberta to join a seperatist party.

Greg said...

I should have mentioned it's another greg. Can never have too mnay. Has anyone asked lying asswipe McGuinty why he hasn't increased the number of MPP's representing Toronto and other urban centers to match their population? That would probably work out to 90%/10% urban vs rural. Or is Kinsella's champion a hypocrite as well as a liar.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Greg #2 - Glad you clarified that. I was beginning to wonder if our Liberal Greg was experiencing a personality disorder.

Good comments. Thanks for joining in.