Liberal MP Joe Comuzzi got the boot (H/T to reader Brian in Calgary).
So Garth, what was that about a big tent where discussion and differing opinions are welcome?
Update: I tried asking Garth that question at his blog, but it seems that I have been banned! So much for discussion and free speech. I was responding to this statement:
If you want to be a leader whose orders are followed without question by those who know their place, are able to follow commands effortlessly, don’t talk to the media, can work as a team and never question you in public or cast doubt upon your leadership, get a dog.
I was wanting to ask Garth what Joe Comuzzi might say to that. Well, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, and expect that my comment is awaiting his approval. Yes, that must be it.
Update: My comment is finally on Garth's site. (1:49 pm)
So I guess I haven't been banned yet. I'll just have to try a bit harder. Interesting discussion there, but I hate feeding his ego with the traffic.
More at Political Staples. (Good point made here that Joe C. may have been used as an example for what could happen to dissenting Quebec MP's who are afraid to face their constituents if they vote against the goodies for their province. It could be political suicide for them (either way, I guess.)
* * * *
Thursday Update: David Akin relates Joe Comuzzi's press statement on the CTV Politics Blog:
(The site appears to be down temporarily).
...I love Canada and my region and if doing the right thing has consequences, I must accept them. However I will never, never put my gain in front of representing my constituents...
(The site appears to be down temporarily).
35 comments:
At least Comuzzi got to express his views and Dion explained to him the reasons behind the necessity to expel him from caucus.
If this was Harper, your career would be destroyed, nomination yanked, perhaps even membership revoked. The difference with Dion is Harper is a vengeful man who does not tolerate dissent or even criticism.
Hi Joanne -
How were you banned on Garth's site? Could you explain?
Paul
Hi Paul,
I tried leaving a comment and nothing happened. On the other hand sometimes blogger does the same thing. I'll give it another try.
Just listening to QP period now. It started with the Tories chanting "We want Joe!"
Lemme onow what happens
Paul, it's there now. I updated this post about it. Maybe just got stuck in the queue. Let's see if he responds. ;)
The other thing is, what about Tom Wappel?
Hi Joanne -
How were you banned on Garth's site? Could you explain?
Paul
Paul - you seem to be insinuating that Garth does not ban commentors?
I can attest that I am one of the banned ones - I have taken to posting under a different name - my comments get through only to disappear later (if I mention that I am actually posting under a different name).
I would wonder Joanne if you got banned, then when you brought it up, you got reinstated for looks?
Just a question?
Paul - you seem to be insinuating that Garth does not ban commentors?
No, not at all, just wanted to be sure Joanne was banned before I wrote an article about it.
Don't want to be described as the boy that cried wolf.
lol! Alberta Girl, I know there are lots of people banned from his site. Frankly, I surprised he hasn't done it already.
A few days ago I asked him why he called the Prime Minister of Canada a political whore?
His answer in so many words was, 'because he is'.
Amazing hypocrisy isn't it? Garth goes to the Liberals to have freedom to speak as he wants and vote according to his constituents. You know, I actually feel bad for the guy. Frying pan into the fire. He would have been better off as an Independent, in spite of the lack of research money, etc. Jo -- visit Jack's site on this topic. There is quite a discussion going on.
Garth goes to the Liberals to have freedom to speak as he wants and vote according to his constituents.
Extreme irony. I would love to know what both Garth's and Joe C's constituents think about all this.
It was sweet as hell watching Joe C's face last night when Duff asked him if he was worried about a backlash...
He laughed, and well he should. What are the Dionist going to do to a guy like Joe C., and good on the old codger for voting for his people and not for partisanship.
My salute to you Joe.
anonymous 2:29
Michael Chong was not asked to sit as an independent
Florence
I doubt garth as a grit is going to last very long. he and dion disagree on any number of things. I suspect garth's tongue has deep bite marks in it. Good for Joe Commuzi. I hear keith Martin will also vote for the budget.
Joe Calgary, I saw that too. It was a thing of beauty. The video from Mike Duffy is stil available here.
Click on Mike Duffy at the right.
"Garth goes to the Liberals to have freedom to speak as he wants and vote according to his constituents."
Except that's not what happened. He was booted from the CPC for disagreeing with the leader and speaking his mind. He never voted against his own party.
There is a difference between following party discipline, and the CPCs total muzzling of MPs.
Not much hypocrisy there. I'm you may think it's not fair, but that's how it is.
Liberal supporter 5:03
voting according to your constituents is what Comuzzi is doing
Florence
Perhaps Garth Turner should give his own advice to Dion on Comuzzi supporting the Budget.
In Wednesday's blog, titled "Holy Smokes," Turner said it is "unfortunate" that he was suspended from the federal Conservative caucus, but added that it's more important to look after his constituents than "heed" his party.
"I have said here many times, and consistently since I was elected this last time, that I work for the voters — the people, the taxpayers. After that I heed my party and the political establishment. All are important, of course, but the people come first."
"Voting according to constituents" is subjective. How did Comuzzi determine what his constituents want? Was there a vote? Of course there wasn't, and while it may seem "obvious" to you that that his constituents want something that is in this budget, how did Comuzzi determine this?
The original statement was Garth went to the Liberals in order to vote according to constituents. It was part of a logical fallacy trying to paint Dion as some control freak who allows no dissent. I guess they don't like Steve being portrayed that way.
The argument being Garth went to the Liberals to be able to vote freely on whipped votes, and when Comuzzi tries to do the same, he is booted from caucus.
The fallacy being Garth did not join the Liberals so he could vote freely on whipped votes. Being allowed to speak freely (which is what got Garth kicked from the CPC) is not the same as not following the party line.
If you truly want to vote according to constituents, you need to do two things. One, you need to sit as an independent. Two, you need to find a reliable way to determine what your constituents want. Something more substantial and fair than "all these bloggers say so, you better vote as they say", or "9 out of the 10 phone calls I received say vote this way".
Did Garth ever vote contrary to the party line in a whipped vote? Ever?
No, he spoke his mind, tried to debate when the Inner Party had already decided matters, criticized the Leader, and was kicked for it.
He can freely do those things as a Liberal. He is not ignored. He is treated with respect, even if his views do not become party policy.
But he will vote the party line in a whipped vote.
"He can freely do those things as a Liberal. He is not ignored. He is treated with respect, even if his views do not become party policy."
ls, please show me the examples where Garth has criticised Dion and the Liberal's, talking freely on his blog. In fact, go there and ask him his position on national daycare and see if you get an answer.
Garth strongly favored the Conservative child tax credit and completely dissed Martin's nation daycare strategy. See if you can get him to do that now.
I'll check back in in a few years. If you need more time than that let me know.
Garth doesn't have to criticize his current party to prove he is allowed to do so.
What's your point, anon, if you can spare a few years to decide what it is?
The Liberals have failed to attack the budget on a step by step manner
what do the liberals find wrong with the budget? that necessitates voting against it
i think they may find they are all not listening to their constituents
prove me wrong
Florence
prove what wrong? prove a negative?
What are the constituents saying, according to you?
Joanne
Great stuff at Jack's
Ontario's endangered species Act
I can't stop laughing
Florence
Liberal Supporter:
Joe is looking out for a project that's very important to the folks in TBay. No vote required. You don't have to be a genius to know TBay is hurting.
Garth talks a pretty good talk about voting for his people, but he's concerned about what's good for Garth. Biting his tongue because he doesn't want to lose his nomination and fund raising ability.
You don't have to be naive to be a Liberal Supporter but is sure helps.
Thank you for confirming my point, richard. There was no "hypocrisy" in the Joe and Garth situations. They are completely different, as you acknowledge. Just another talking point that doesn't stand up.
Thank you very much Liberal supporter for agreeing that you aren't adept at trying to use another's argument against them, but rather awkwardly attempt to do so by simply stating your point and thanking the other for "agreeing with you".
Again, thank you Liberal Supporter.
When you boil it down, Turner and Comuzzi were both kicked out for not respecting their Caucus. To me,it doesn't matter what the reasons for each were.
However, in the end, it doesn't take much to see which MP had the more altuistic motives. I'm not going to say who I think that is, but it doesn't take a stretch to come to the obvious conclusion.
Garth Turner got up today in the House of Commons and claimed he is a real Canadian
I think NOT a real Canadian does not refer to the Prime Minister of Canada
the best Prime Minister as a political whore
Florence
"Again, thank you Liberal Supporter."
Yes, anon, you win for most condescending comment. I tried, but I now bow to your superior condescension.
Thank you.
Where is Don Rickles? The quality of insults you anons throw at me are pretty weak.
...a real Canadian does not refer to the Prime Minister of Canada...as a political whore
Florence, I agree. Turner was likely responding to Joe Comuzzi's remarks which I added to an update at the end of this post.
Hola!!
Forget that there "annieonemice" label they're trying to stick me with. This is me, Tango Juliette. And TangoJuliette sez:
Garth, his blog quoted heavily in this morning Sun (Trawnna, that'd be,) proves to me, that he has evloved greatly from being the man I once greatly admired, to someone I admire. . . well, not so much, anymore.
BTW :
What PMSH shoulda done was walk across the floor and, Krettin-style, throttled Dion's scrawny, widdle pencil-neck. Then give Talijack! a taste of the same.
You know, I just somehow don't recall the left-soft MSM being half-as incensed over ti-Jean's attempted public execution of a anti-poverty activist. No talk of how this conduct "demeaned the Office of the Prime Minister," nor just “how scary and ideologically mean-spirited" Jean was towards the homeless.
Now, dat PM Jean, he was a guy wid "a pair," wasn't he?
O. wait.
Nope 'twas his wee wifey, Ailing’, armed with the mighty assault-calibre Innu carving, 'twas she chased the sinister and dark stranger out of the royal mansion at midnight, wazz'n it?
“Street Scrapper jean Krettin?”
My aunt Fanny! More like an apron string dangler, dat ti-jean. Twiddle and pap. The whole lot of 'em, dem Libranos. Naught but drooling, runny-nosed lickspittles, all.
ttfn,
tj
Tango Juliette sez:
libSup.
Garth, in not maintaining Caucus
secrecy, brought about his own ouster. Now -- you might consider Caucus secrecy to be some sort of erosion of the right of free speech, but that's another matter.
If you participate in the play-calling huddle of one team, then broadcast the play, for everyones consumption, you ain't a team player, and you should rightly be given a soldierly thwack upside the helmet. Then escorted off the property.
'nuff said.
Joanne, do you know if anyone in Canadian history has ever voted against their party's position on a budget and stayed in caucus?
I think probably not, but I thought you might know for sure off the top of your head?
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