Friday, March 31, 2006

A Possible Solution

As part 2 of this series, I would like to draw your attention to the Conservative Life post "Opening of the Baby Human Hunt". However, I must warn you, it is not for the faint of heart (or stomach). Graphic images are displayed, so proceed with caution. If you don't want to take a look though, I have to ask you why not? Those tiny babies went through a lot of trauma and pain before they died. Surely you can suffer through an uncomfortable glance for a moment.

Anyway, Ferret has made some excellent points in his comment section. You may have to wade through some rough language to get there, but it's worth the read.

Some more salient points: "If you murder a one week old baby that was born two weeks prematurely it is murder. If you murder 40 week old fetus that is technically older than the one that was born before being killed than it is acceptable. THAT IS INSANE."

Just think about that one for a while. To me it defeats that whole 'when is the fetus a person?' argument.

After I complimented Ferret for having the courage to write this he said, "It really doesn't take any courage to do this. Being critical of muslims takes courage because you might lose your head. Being hit with stupid comments from liberals who don't understand the absurdity of their stance is par for the course. I have a steady stream of idiot liberals who come here to showcase their ignorance. Good work getting your letter published in the National Post!"

The latter is a reference to my letter drawing a similar comparison to the seal hunt debate, which I included in an earlier post, (Live and Let Die). The whole thing drew some great comments.

Now, what I've been building up to here is a possible solution, as presented by a Post reader (Letters, March 30, "With a Viable Fetus, Rights Change". The writer is actually Margaret Somerville from the McGill Centre for Medicine, Ethics and Law in Montreal.

She feels that the whole issue shifts once a fetus is viable, i.e. could be kept alive as a premie if allowed to live. At this point, isn't it murder to kill the baby once he would be theoretically able to be kept alive using modern technology?

Ms. Somerville further argues:

"Abortion is based on respect for a woman's right to control her body, including to not use it to gestate a fetus against her wishes. That right can be honoured by recognizing her right to evacuate her uterus. It is a further, separate question whether a woman also has a right to have the fetus killed when that is avoidable.

Late-term abortions are usually carried out by a lethal injection of potassium chloride into the heart of the fetus, which is then delivered dead. In Canada, no law prevents doing that to any fetus. If the same fetus were born alive and killed, the crime would be murder. The Princeton philosopher Peter Singer recognizes the inconsistency in this approach and, therefore, argues for the legalization of infanticide as well as abortion. The alternative path to consistency is to ban late-term abortions, unless they are required to protect the woman's life or health. Or we could just ban killing a viable fetus, but allow its delivery."

I'm not going to copy any more of the letter here, because you should have been subscribing to the Post all along, right? (See, I'm not totally against MSM).

So, in the case of late stage unwanted pregnancies, let's rid the poor woman of her horrible burden, and still allow that human being an opportunity to live and be loved in a good home with parents who are desperate to have children.

Or else it should be legal to snuff out anyone's life when they cause us some inconvenience.

Update: Just discovered two more great links to debate on this subject:

Try Celestial Junk, "The Debate Nobody Wants", and The War Room, "Partial Birth Abortion".

Obviously, democracy still rules in the blogosphere.


kelly said...

We need some kind of law! Late term abortions should be outlawed altogether. If the mother's life is in danger, the procedure should be delivering early - not abortion. Give the child a fighting chance. I think it is easier for the pro-abortion people to condone abortion because it is hidden. You can't see the fetus and it is easily disposed of. Why are we outraged when a 37 week old baby is delivered then killed compared to that of a 37 week old killed in it's mother's womb? Visibility! We have ridiculous laws that say that a child must be fully emerged from it's mother's womb to be considered a human being! This allows partial-birth abortions. Pull the child part way out, kill he or she, and then remove the rest of the body. What is wrong with us???? I believe any level headed, right thinking individual should be able to analyze that law and realize how wrong it is! To the radical feminists, I ask, do you remember your history and the time in our country when women were not considered people? We are doing the same thing.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Wow! Well said, Kelly. Excellent point about the feminists.

Sara said...

there needs to be a solution,, if you get pregnant there are fees to it. Dr's notes for maternity leave, special meds, vitamins etc...

but an abortion if free...

go figure eh

Felix Taylor, Jr. said...

Tough stuff with those pictures but it hammer's the point. Kelly made a brilliant proposal to remove the fetus from the mother if the mother's life is in danger and give the child some kind of a fighting chance. In fact, it is time for medical science to step up to the plate and make abortion more a less necessary procedure. Right on Kelly, sock it to the feminazis!

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Felix, right on. Kelly's proposals are excellent. With all that modern science can accomplish, there must be a way in most cases, to preserve both the mother's life and the baby's by early delivery. If the mother doesn't want the child, there are lots of deserving people out there who do.

Her point about abortion being hidden is a good one too, because pro-choice militants have done such a thorough brain-washing job that they have effectively even made it socially unacceptable to even display the images.

Sara also raised the issue of funding, which is another angle. Not only do we allow this horror in Canada, we enable it by providing free access that you and I are paying for with our taxes. In a way, aren't we aiding and abetting - especially when we remain silent?

vicki said...

The medical profession is too quiet about this. I work in the hospital and have only heard one doctor speak out about how wrong it is that we 'pay' for abortions,and more urgent surgury waits. Abortions tie up anesthetists, OR staff and hospital staff.The silence is deafening!

Adam said...

I am currently a first year medical student and I agree that there is little to no discussion on the topic. We took one class to discuss some cases surrounding abortion in our ethics class, mostly focusing on confounding circumstances such as rape, incest, combinations of those two, and whether physicians have a responsibility to refer to another doctor if we have a problem with abortion. This was the first year that my school has included abortion as a topic in ethics. I was surprised to hear people tell me that I should be biting my tongue and not let my personal beliefs affect my "doctoring." I've always wanted to be a health care providing robot!!!

I think that it is reprehensible that we learn in our embryology class that a fetus has a heartbeat at 22 days, reflexes such as suckling not much later, developing and functioning organ systems, and that there are still people in my this profession that can say that abortion shouldn't even be an ethical problem. Don't take that to be the norm though.

All in all, there needs to be more abortion debate within the medical community and within Canadian society in general. There is a lot of misinformation out there, as well as pointless fearmongering. It seems that any restrictions on abortion will result in back alley, coat hanger style abortions. I had no idea that there were so many women out there that are that desperate to end the life developing within them.

Good on you Joanne for discussing the a-word on your blog. Keep up the good work!

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Adam, thanks for that slice of life that most of us rarely have an opportunity to share.

"There needs to be more abortion debate within the medical community and within Canadian society in general." Canada needs more medical students and doctors such as yourself, Adam. God bless you with your studies and career!

vicki said...

Keep this in mind, and adam will know this from med school: when we use the word fetus we are referring to a stage of growth,as in infant, toddler or teen, or adult.(all humans) If we refer to a preborn baby instead of 'fetus' we are showing more respect for that baby. Using the word fetus has actually allowed a de-personalization(my word, I don't know if it is the dictionary)The pro abortion people will never make refernce to a pre-born baby: they use the word 'fetus'.Also, if we check the actual figures the actual pregnancies that endanger mom's life are very few.As well the number of pregnancy resulting from rape are very few. It is the drama of those 2 situations that are used by the pro-abortion people. The fact is abortion is used for birth control.

kelly said...

I agree with you 100% Vicki. I would go as far as saying that with modern technology, there are very few cases of abortion being the necessary procedure to save a mother's life and if we were talking about abortion only for those instances of rape and mother's life - there would be very few abortions ever performed. I believe that abortion is being used as birth control. We need to stop being afraid to say the "A" word and speak the truth in love. I also belive that in the case of rape, adoption is the best solution. Abortion is not going to make the rape go away - I believe it will only add to the horror of what has already happened.

Riley Hennessey said...


Did you notice the NDP today said they'd work with the Conservatives on Child Care over the next year? Judy whats-her-wash-lees said the NDP understood families want some financial help but also there is a need to create spaces. It sounded like some interesting negotiation tactics to me.

This cooperation between NDP and Cons is very interesting and is something to watch out for over the next year.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Verrrry interesting, Riley. We'll have to keep an eye on that one.

Vicki - With reference to your comment on the use of the word "fetus". As I commented on another blog, how often have you ever heard a doctor or nurse tell a woman in labour, "Now you can push. You're fetus is almost ready to be born"?

vicki said...

Right on joanne!We have let them get away with it too long!BTW...check out the sad story on sda....

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Vicki, sda? Excuse my ignorance, but what is that?

vicki said...

Sorry joanne. That is a short for an excellent blog site: ''
My IHTG is not here to show me how to link. I'm sure you can use Google. She is one of my favourites.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

LOL! Darn those IHTG's. They're never around when you want them!!

Yeah, I like SDA too. You can actually find that site on the Blogging Tories links on the right of my site. For some reason I couldn't access the site tonight, but I'll try tomorrow.