"Terror suspects less dangerous than street racers".
All this arose from Garth's post, "In the Mosque", where he recounted his somewhat uncomfortable visit with members of the Muslim community in his riding.
In the comments section of his blog, Garth makes the following statement:
I believe the authorities were 100% correct in what they did, but there’s also a very good chance many of these young ‘terrorists’ were less dangerous than the punk street racers who have actually already taken lives.
(Emphasis mine)
Garth was obviously trying to say that everyone is innocent until proven guilty, but the undertone is to minimize the seriousness of the allegations. Street racing and terrorism are not on the same level of concern at all. By Garth's logic, we should wait until Canadians are actually killed, and suspects are tried, sentenced and convicted before we get on our collective high horse, if I understand him correctly.
Sorry Garth. You lost me on that one. I have defended you before in this blog, but this time you are seriously out to lunch, on this issue and others.
BTW, great post at Dissonance And Disrespect on this topic.
14 comments:
I think you mostly understand Garth correctly. My thoughts are that Garth doesn't appear to appreciate that conspiracies are CRIMES and are ILLEGAL. Hence, in garth's world, a street racer who is involved in a fatal accident is a criminal (even before trial, as far as i can tell!) but the terror accussed are not, because no one is dead.
Yeah, I like the post on D&D. The sooner we don't need Garth's vote, the better.
its amazing (but not surprising) how many defenders,dupes and stooges these alleged terrorists have already; even if they are found guilty we have already lost by treating them like common criminals which they clearly are not. There is some sense of deja vu from my time in Northern Ireland and even though the cause is somewhat different the end affect is the same. We have to nip this in the bud now before it gets any worse.
I share your disappointment.
Today I heard on the radio that the families of those 8 solid citizens involved in Jane Creba's death last boxing day were also shocked.
Doesn't anybody know or care what their kids are up to?
Garth's history of brain fart exclaimations is Long and pretty well docummented. In the world according to Garth we've had him play martyr at the hands of "Western" conservatives, victim of political conspiracy, saviour of the Conservative party, the greatest defender of truth and justice and numerous other roles which seem to me basically intended to garner attention for himself.
As a conservative I find him an embarassment.
As for who knows what their kids are doing...I do for one. They are working on their music projects and figuring out how to earn enough money to do things like go to movies, concerts etc. and still have time to kick back with their friends.
Work is a great instructor in the real world.
I can understand the point of view that likens some of the underage suspects as foolish kids caught up in something. It's certainly possible, and we are well served by a government MP publicly saying so.
The process has to appear fair, since there is a "hearts and minds" campaign going on. The bad guys are trying to convince young impressionable people that there is great injustice here and only violence can make it change. The counter argument it is that such violence is actually a greater injustice, and will often simply lead to even more violence, so work with the freedoms you have to make the changes you want.
So their lawyers say they are being tortured, but they are not locked up for saying so. Those torture allegations would need to be proved, just as the charges against the suspects need to be.
We have a system of graduated legal sanctions, and you can actually break some laws as part of political dissent and sometimes be excused, unless you become violent. We also have a system where some normal liberties can be denied, such as confidential lawyer conversations and family visits in jail, if there is a reasonably founded potential for great violence.
It's still early days on this. I happen to have a lot of faith in the police, so I will assume they know what they are doing. The high security on the courts, and the isolation of the suspects from each other and family, and monitoring of conversations with their lawyers is unusual. It indicates that investigations are ongoing, and there may be accomplices still not apprehended.
Though three tons of fertlizer sounds like a lot. It is the amount you would apply to about 41 acres of farm fields. Significant, but many farmers would routinely have this much on hand. So the police are probably not comfortable that they have actually completely stopped a terror plot. They do not want the suspects in custody revealing to acccomplices where the other cell phone detonators are stashed. I think the police only displayed one, yet say there was more than one bomb planned.
If these accomplices see that the process is not as evil as their leaders say, even though it is treated as very serious, and the suspects, if found guilty, will be jailed for a long time, it is more likely that one of them will turn informant. That's hearts and minds too.
Good points, everyone. Garth replied to my comment in his post. I am still trying to puzzle it out. Feel free to interpret it if you wish.
I'm with you, Joanne, Garth is out to lunch on this one. As x2 said, we need to nip this nonsense in the bud. LS makes some valid points, but the key is, I think, that there are "ongoing investigations" which I think is enough to justify the glass in between. There is still contact, it's just not in an open space.
Torture? Yeah, right. I'd like to see the lawyer's definition.
I get that Garth is saying,
why are you focusing so much money and man power on a chance thing when you see what is right in front of you (street racing) and you ignore that... I agree with him... Terrorist is a nasty thing and always will be, I don't say lesson it for them but I add start focusing on your home town as well. A street car slips into a crowd of 100 people and kills 30 of them or a terrorist wants to blow up an subway car, same type of crime to me. Put man power into both, terrorism can be stopped before it happens we've proven that. Why can't street racing be stopped before it happens? I think it can, it just needs more man power and money behind the police force to do both...
pgp, absolutely right! music, sports, and jobs keep my guys busy as well.
and I think having Mom at home for the first 10 years didn't hurt.
John and PGP - That's right. Get the kids in tune with the real world as soon as possible.
The parents that are shocked that their kids are allegedly breaking the law need to examine their own parenting techniques, and start taking some responsiblity. The Nanny state does not have endless resources and patience.
now that I can agree with, just don't come looking for me if mine turn out bad. I'll be hiding in the hills lol
Sara, if your kids don't turn out well after all you've done, you can at least be comforted in the knowledge that you did your best.
I see the main problem being too many kids protected from the logical consequences of life: You mess up; you pay for it.
A real parent who loves their child will help them to face up to the consequences of their actions, not protect them from it.
true
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