Tuesday, June 06, 2006

Canada to Blame for Alleged Threat of Violence

From today's Record: ("Smart Integration is a Must for Country's Muslims")

Minorities are usually consciously or unconsciously excluded from full participation in the life of the country. As a result, they become self-conscious social units sharing a sense of belonging to a group that sees itself as distinct from society's dominant majority.


- Mohamed Elmasry, National President of the Canadian Islamic Congress, Waterloo.


And more:

To my knowledge, there is no academic research done in Canada or any other Western country to address the social aspects of this problem. The Canadian Islamic Congress urged the federal government in 2003 to allocate research funding to academia to do the needed research in partnership with the community, but we were turned down.

Today, the government spends money to police the problem but zero money on well-documented university research.





So there you go folks. Now we have finally uncovered the reason why some young Muslims in Canada are "allegedly" resorting to violence and terror to further their cause. It is the fault of Canadian society and the government.



This from the man who once said on the Michael Coren show, that all Israeli civilians over 18 are legitimate targets for suicide bombers.

So Canada, please take note and change the attitude. Now that we have this problem solved, I guess we can all move on.

I myself am breathing a big sigh of relief today.



* * * * *

In his piece, Professor Elmasry also said:

But then the question will become why were a few Canadian Muslim youth trying to make a political statement using violence instead of using peaceful means available in a liberal democracy like Canada.

It seems that at least one of the alleged terrorists already tried that avenue (H/T to Daimnation!)


49 comments:

Mary said...

Joanne, you are not going to get an honest response from anyone on this subject as everyone including the MSM is afraid of the Muslims in their midst!

Joanne (True Blue) said...

That's right. As you can see, I have refrained from expressing a direct opinion myself. I am merely reporting the facts.

x2para said...

be nice and understanding and islamofascists will become peaceful members of our society; yeah OK and if you beleive that one I've got some shares of Bre-X for sale; jihadists don't want us to be nice to them they want us to submit to allah and their false prophet, oh crap that might be hate speech, I better go into hiding

Joanne (True Blue) said...

x2para - Try bashing Christians instead. Much safer.

jdave34 said...

I've read this posting 4 times, and I have yet to see where anyone blames Canada.

All I saw was an acknowledgement that minorities sometimes have a harder time integrating into the greater Canadian society and a call for research into better integrating minorities into our communities.

Gee, maybe if we take measures to make immigrants feel like Canada is their home, maybe they won't blow their home up.

As for your comment about not expressing an opinion? Laughable. The sarcasm practically drips off the screen.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Jdave, why don't you release some of that pent-up anger in a socially approved manner; like throwing a rock through the window of a Catholic church?

jdave34 said...

joanne:

What are you talking about? Is that concussion acting up again? Seriously... I don't even know where the hell your comment came from. Tell ya what: Finish watching Dora the Explorer, wipe the drool off the keyboard, and try to formulate a coherent thought. Once that's done (my guess: 2:30 PM, tomorrow), get someone (not a fellow resident) to edit it and make sure it makes sense. Then hit the 'Publish' button.

BTW: I'm Catholic. baptized, and confirmed. Not that that's anything to be proud of these days.

Mary said...

jdave34
Yes, just as I expected from you, take the heat off the subject and look for an easy target to shoot your venom into.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Yes, another "Reductio ad hominem" attack. It's just about the only ammunition in their arsenal. Frankly, I am finding it somewhat boring and lacking substance.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

"BTW: I'm Catholic. baptized, and confirmed."

Me too, which is why I felt at liberty to use that as an example. Moreover, I am a Christian.


"The sarcasm practically drips off the screen."

Sarcasm is in the mind of the reader.

However, "Today, the government spends money to police the problem but zero money on well-documented university research". I would suggest that there is some blame levelled at the Canadian government here, or did you skip that part?

jdave34 said...

mary:

With all due respect, you may be unknowingly intoxicated.

Where was the venom in my first post? It was only when the always-respectful, always-thoughtful Joanne told me to chuck a rock through a church window that I let fly.

And Joanne, Do you pay Stephen Taylor royalties every time you say 'Reductio ad hominem'? Because I know that you got the term from his very recent blog posting.

And you used it incorrectly anyways, because my original post was my interpretation of your posting, it wasn't an attack against you, unless you consider my pointing out your sarcasm as some sort of attack.

I'll give you the definition of ad hominem:
A (fallacious) ad hominem argument has the basic form:

A makes claim X.
There is something objectionable about A.
Therefore claim X is false.
The first statement is called a 'factual claim' and is the pivot point of much debate. The last statement is referred to as an 'inferential claim' and represents the reasoning process. There are two types of inferential claim, explicit and implicit.


So, if we look here, I made a statement giving my interpretation of what you posted. you told me to chuck a rock through a church window.

If anyone conducted an 'ad hominem' attack, it was you, choosing not to refute my statement, but rather to hurl a really stupid insult, considering my background. Which you didn't. Which isn't all that surprising considering your history of half baked ideas and missing the point entirely.

Big words can be dangerous. Especially when they're in Latin. that's why I look up a definition before using words. When we use million-dollar words incorrectly, we look like 5-cent hacks.

Hugs!!!

jdave34 said...

However, "Today, the government spends money to police the problem but zero money on well-documented university research". I would suggest that there is some blame levelled at the Canadian government here, or did you skip that part?

No, I read that, but I fail to see where the perceived shortcomings of our government becomes a blanket condemnation of our ENTIRE Country, as the title of your post states. Perhaps it is YOU that needs to read that paragraph.

Bullshit headlines that fail the logic test?? On Joanne's blog??? What are the odds?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

"Minorities are usually consciously or unconsciously excluded from full participation in the life of the country"

And that would be referring to whom as the ones doing the excluding???

jdave34 said...

Sometimes it's us. Sometimes it's their own community:

"Don't trust Canadians.

Buy from this guy. He's one of us.

Why are you hanging around with them? Trying to 'fit in' ass-kisser?"

I don't think anyone's 'to blame' for this, but it does need to be addressed.

jdave34 said...

a community can exclude itself is what I'm getting at.

and it's not just foreigners: Mennonites and Jehovah's Witnesses often exclude themselves from mainstream society, as do ethnic groups.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

"So, if we look here, I made a statement giving my interpretation of what you posted. you told me to chuck a rock through a church window."

Ah, so
Christie Blatchford
was right after all. This is really a War on Windows.

Mary said...

Excerpt from the National Post by Chris Wattie -Mon. June 5/06:
“They were out there almost every other week said one neighbour who like all of the local residents willing to speak with the National Post Sunday was too frightened to give their names.”

In every other news event people are only too eager to give their names and only too willing to speak to the press & TV cameras aimed at them.
But in the case of the terrorists in their midst they don’t want their names or faces published.
Why?

The answer is they are AFRAID of the terrorists in their midst.

By the way jdave34-
I Don't drink at all but I bet you do and a lot!

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Jdave, are you actually trying to say that the Muslim community itself may need to shoulder some of the responsibility?

jdave34 said...

mary:

I had 3 gin and tonics 3 fridays ago. First drinks I've had in months. I'm not a very big drinker.

Joanne: We ALL need to take responsibility for this.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

"Joanne: We ALL need to take responsibility for this."

JDave, that is the first time we have been able to agree on anything.

jdave34 said...

joanne:

Not true. We agreed that the legal opinion regarding polygamy and it's limited recognition was a good idea.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

"We agreed that the legal opinion regarding polygamy and it's limited recognition was a good idea."

I did? Oh, yeah. Limited to me, Sara and Lorrie Goldstein. ;)

TangoJuliette said...

"The 15 Muslim men arrested in Toronto on the week-end (and two arrested in Kingston[already serving time for gun smuggling]) are innocent until proven guilty. But if and when any is proven guilty in a court of law, then I hope and pray that Canada's Muslims will not be found guilty by associaton.

But then the question will become why were a few Canadian Muslim youth trying to make a political statement using violence instead of using peaceful means available in a liberal democracy like Canada."

These two paragraphs are the openiong lines of Dr. Elmasry's article. It would be advisable for all concerned to read his entire piece, befor going off on each other over bits and pieces of someone else's thoughts.

Historically, there have always been instances of betrayal of ones own tribe, be it a blood tribe or an adopted tribe. The betrayers, for want of a better label, were insiders as well as outsiders. They were also from all walks of life and from al levels of the socio-econiomic ladder.

Ones that spring most readily to my mind as recollections, were the upper-crust and monied Brotons, who embraced Nazi and USSR ideologies, selling out their homeland. Kim Philby and his crowd. Lord Ha-Ha and his bunch.

In the US, the Rosenbergs, framed or not, but electrocuted, for passing nuclear weapon secrets to the USSR.

McKenzie King, innocently allowing secret agents of ally USSR to have destructive free reign in Canada 1939 to 1947, until cipher clerk Igor Guzenko defected from the Soviet embassy in Ottawa with all the networks in his pocket, and Canda fiddled and farted around for days before Igor threatened to take it to the press.

I still contend that its a real pity that the Keepers of the Eastern Gate on Turtle Island didn't have tougher immigration laws and more stringent security at the purported time of "first contact" with Europeans. The Euros, and all who came after them, could still be "back home" doing each other in, while the aboriginals could still be here doing their own thing.

The only possible difference could well have been that the First Nations Peoples, more than likely would not have savaged the environment anywhere close to as bad as the non-aboriginals have.

In any case, those who turn against their own land, are of every c olour, but often the betrayers are the same bloodlines as those betrayed.

More B'Ball courts wouldn't have made a difference. These accused are not the disenfranchised youth they are painted to be.

Some people just seem to have made some decisions that could have had some serious and devastatingly fatal impact on the lives of many. Even if this is all a frame-up, as some contend, much of Canada's social fabric has been grievously shredded.

Though I must admit, the prospect of the law "planting" three tons of anything on anybody, is a bit of a stretch, compared to planting a joint or two, or even a blade or a side-arm on somebody they might want to be framing.

"There are no victims only approved enemies of the State."

There are no victims only those who do not share our ideologies."

"There are no victims only the approved enemies of our ideologies."

jdave34 said...

Joanne:

thanks for the visual. I didn't feel like eating today anyways....

And make sure Lorrie wraps his 'little tory'. twice. Just to be safe.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

"More B'Ball courts wouldn't have made a difference. These accused are not the disenfranchised youth they are painted to be."

Right, Tango. The "Hug-a-Thug" philosophy likely won't work here either. Thanks, though for pointing out that people should read the whole article. I would have reproduced it in it's entirety, but that would have contravened the Record's copyright laws, and I for one try to follow the laws of our land.

Blake said...

Joanne:

You may or may not respond, but there is no such logical operator called reductio ad hominem. There is an argumentum ad hominem (three classes of it, actually, all of them fallacies), and there is a reductio ad absurdum style of argument, but there is no reductio ad hominem in formal logical statement categorization.

I hope that's not too boring a technical discussion. I'd hate to bring theory of logic onto a blog like this.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

I called it a Reductio ad hominem "attack". But thanks for making that clarification with regards to semantics.

jdave34 said...

Blake:

It wasn't Joanne that got it wrong. It was Stephen Taylor. Check his May 29th post.

Joanne:

Crib from better (or less grammatically challenged) sources. You make enough errors here. No need to catch shit for someone else's.

Blake said...

"It wasn't Joanne that got it wrong. It was Stephen Taylor. Check his May 29th post."

Yeah, but that's assuming Joanne isn't bright enough to thoughtfully consider what she's read for herself, and should be accountable for not discerning that not everything a Tory says might be correct.

Yeah, okay, you're right. Sorry to belabour the point. It is Stephen Taylor's fault.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Is that the best you guys can do for nit-picking today? You seem to be a little off your game.

Blake said...

And, I just couldn't pass this up.

"Sarcasm is in the mind of the reader."

Huh? The writer isn't aware of the intent behind what he or she writes, and the reader is free to derive carte blanche meaning from what is written? I agree that sometimes in writing one can create themes and ideas without realizing they're there, but as to whether this particular comment was sarcastic or not, I don't think that is created in the mind of the reader.

Unless you're saying that what you write is basically random anyways, and the audience is either advised or merely left with no alternative but to construe whatever meaning possible from the disconnected strings of words. But I doubt you'd confess that openly.

And jdave:

Make sure you touch all the bases. You just crushed that last one right out of the park.

Blake said...

"nit-picking"? jdave demolished the entire central idea of your article in his first post, and I assure you that if he had not done so before I got here, I would have, because it's that glaring.

At this point, we're just having fun, the work having already been accopmlished.

Mary said...

I want to commend Debris Trail for what Joanne says is an awesome piece. It is awesome for, it is so well written and she had the courage to at least approach the elephant and acknowledge that it is there right smack in front of us.

To quote Debris:

There is an ENORMOUS DOUBLE STANDARD between being able to criticize Christianity, and the “tepid” critique of Islam, and the politically correct police consider it fair and not bigoted.
The rubber meets the road here: If it is legitimate to criticize rightwing Christian conservatives, then it is legitimate to criticize Islam.
If we can point at and prod one elephant in the room, why must we dance around the other?

I say you are a brave gal to step out and say what most of us are thinking.

Blake said...

"It is awesome for, it is so well written..."

Oh, dear God, have people never read actual literature around here?!? I mean, I'm all up in the Russians, and having read people like Bely, and Blok, and Bunin, and Dostoevsky, and even Tolstoy (whose later writing sucks), and I simply wouldn't call that work over there at Debris Pile "awesome", or "good" by any standard, except compared to that which the Blogging Tories usually put out. William Konrad was less ham-fisted than that attempt.

Seriously, you guys need to seriously get out more and read a hell of a lot more other than political blogs. I'll admit that by blogging standards, that was fairly well-done (although I disagree substantially with the author's point); but it wasn't "awesome" by any stretch of the imagination.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

"All I saw was an acknowledgement that minorities sometimes have a harder time integrating into the greater Canadian society and a call for research into better integrating minorities into our communities."

"jdave demolished the entire central idea of your article in his first post"

"Minorities are usually consciously or unconsciously excluded from full participation in the life of the country"

So assuming that the above is true, whose fault is it? Are the Muslims excluding themselves from full participation or is the rest of society doing it to them?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Mary, I'm sure Debris Trail appreciates your comments, but you may want to know that in his profile he is listed as male.

I agree though that what he says is what we are all thinking.

Ruth said...

Elmasry is a dick!
I don't get why he is remains as head of the Canadian Islamic Congress.

Dave said...

"Seriously, you guys need to seriously get out more and read a hell of a lot more other than political blogs. "

Really Blake, if you're going to be a pompous moonbat, try to improve your own writing style first.

jdave34 said...

"If it is legitimate to criticize rightwing Christian conservatives, then it is legitimate to criticize Islam."

See, you've just made an awesome point. Probably without even knowing it.

You make a comparison between criticizing one, narrow sliver of Christianity ( the conservative, right wing side) and criticizing ALL of Islam.

There's the problem. Islam is NOT to blame here. A bunch of fundamentalist zealots who should spend more time reading the Koran and less reciting it are to blame.

There are a lot of kind, thoughtful, progressive Muslims out there. You oughta get to know a few.

Just like there are a lot of backwards, judgmental, hateful 'Christians' out there.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Ruth! Better go dark after that comment!

Joanne (True Blue) said...

"At this point, we're just having fun, the work having already been accopmlished."

Better work on your spelling too.

Ruth said...

Sorry for my crappy grammar. I just noticed htat stray "is" in my post.
However, I will not recant! Elmasry should have been removed as head of the CIC a long time ago. He is an absolute disgrace.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Ruth, I wish I had the courage to agree with you.

jdave34 said...

Blake:

You are so PWNED!!!!

Spelling errors!!!! What a hack.

ROFLMAOLOLLOLLOL
u r teh 5uxx0r5!!!!

Joanne: Good one!!!! You SOOOOO burned him. You're not gonna see Blake round here anymore. Not after that whupping!!!!!

Soccermom said...

Looks like Harper needed the beefed up cars and security detail after all! (Neal News - Suspect planned to behead PM)

Blake said...

"Joanne: Good one!!!! You SOOOOO burned him. You're not gonna see Blake round here anymore. Not after that whupping!!!!!"

Yeah, it took me a while to climb my way out of that grave, but somehow I managed it.

The fact remains that I would be a far better writer if it weren't for all those years of Liberal rule, where they secretly plotted to turn me into a mental vegetable, so I wouldn't have the discernment skills to see the greatness in such dynamic thinkers as Ernie Eves and Stockwell Day. They won't tell you about this plot in the MSM, of course, because they're all afraid of Muslims.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Soccermom, thanks! I'll post an update.

PGP said...

What you can always expect from El Masry is this kind of tripe.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

PGP - Yes, for Elmasry these comments are more subdued than usual.