Friday, June 16, 2006

It's the Money, Stupid!

I have long suspected that much of the endorsement for same-sex marriage comes from the high probability that many gay and lesbian couples have more discretionary spending due to the fact that they are usually less likely to have children to support.

My theory seems to be supported by this CTV article: "Tourism agency targets U.S. gays and lesbians". In fact I watched this report on Mike Duffy tonight, and was interested to hear that gay rights' activist groups have been pitching the value of recognizing "diversity" to banks and other large corporate groups.

According to according to a 2005 report by the Canadian Tourism Commission, "gay tourists spend $5,000 per week, compared to $1,500 for straight tourists."


"GLBT travellers are high-yield, with above-average disposable incomes and a high propensity to travel."

You can see some of the large corporations that value the gay and lesbian consumer here:

In fact Canada is on the cutting edge of this emerging market. (H/T to Daimnation!)

I guess my question is, are we still talking about "rights" here or a very lucrative industry?

64 comments:

Lord Omar said...

I guess my question is, are we still talking about "rights" here or a very lucrative industry?

Both.

Mac said...

It's definitely a lucrative market but are corporations pushing the agenda or rising to the occasion?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Omar, I'll leave the "rights" issue for another day.

Mac, that's a great point. Are they doing it with the genuine desire to be a good corporate citizen, much like some companies pick favourite charities to support, or are they doing it to enhance their bottom line - or both?

It looks very sexy these days to be supporting gay anything. I suppose that I am questioning the actual motivation. Call me a cynic, if you like.

BTW, with alleged incomes like these, I don't think we need to think of the GLBT community as being all that down-trodden of a minority. I'll bet some of them can hire some high-priced lawyers too. On top of that the government has financed their special-interest and lobby groups for years.

I think they are finally climbing out of the depths of oppression.

Sara said...

I don't get it though, as a married couple they will pay more taxes!!!!

Joanne (True Blue) said...

O.K. We need an accountant here.

gayandproud said...

as a married gay couple, my husband and I recently purchased a new home. the adoption of our son will be complete after Pride, and we look forward to filling our home with beautiful things for our new child. we are always careful to set aside a little money each month to donate to our mosque and to the liberal party of canada. my partner,a lawyer, is working to help ensure that our son will have access to free childcare since we both work. we gays are everywhere. don't be afraid, we won't bite....unless you like it.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

my partner,a lawyer, is working to help ensure that our son will have access to free childcare since we both work.

O.K. You've got me stumped as to whether this is legit or not, but how do you propose to acquire "free" childcare?

gayandproud said...

we support the national daycare program proposed by the liberals and ndp. as a lawyer, my husband has the income and ability to influence politicians.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

And that daycare would be "free"?

Zac said...

"I guess my question is, are we still talking about "rights" here or a very lucrative industry?"

Joanne, must you frame this as some sort of conspiracy theory?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Good job with the italics, Zac. ;)

must you frame this as some sort of conspiracy theory?

I do think there is more behind this than meets the eye, IMHO.

Mac said...

gayandproud, if your post is legitimate and factual, you have much to celebrate; a committed relationship, a home, a child, prosperity, a mosque which hasn't ejected you for being homosexual, living in Canada which accepts your relationship.

With all this going for you, I wonder why you need "free" (ie: paid for by taxpayers) daycare? Why must you burden all Canadians for your childcare costs? By choosing to become a parent, you accepted responsibility for your child, including childcare. You should stop trying to make others responsible for your choices.

Good luck with that "income and ability to influence" stuff. That worked with the corrupt Liberal Party but they're no longer in charge. The Conservatives tend to frown on that kind of thing.

Am I the only one who finds it odd that gayandproud describes his partner as his "husband" or perhaps it's simply because none of the same sex couples I know use that word in their relationships?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Mac, I found that a bit odd too. I think we're being had here.

Dirk said...

"I have long suspected that much of the endorsement for same-sex marriage comes from the high probability that many gay and lesbian couples have more discretionary spending due to the fact that they are usually less likely to have children to support."

Why on earth does this matter?

There are gay couples that have kids, and some that don't.
There are straight couples that don't have kids and some that don't.

So why should straight couples who don't want kids get the tax benefits, etc. that come with marriage, and not gay couples?

This looks to me to be yet another thinly veiled post aimed at perpetuating bigoted ideas.

Dirk said...

"I think we're being had here."

You think?

The guy mentioned pretty much everything you and your commentors have been railing about:
- supporters of a national daycare program
- muslims
- married gay people
- liberal/ndp supporters

Joanne (True Blue) said...

You'll note that my first response was one of skeptism. I would welcome a response from a real gay couple though.

Sara said...

So why should straight couples who don't want kids get the tax benefits, etc. that come with marriage, and not gay couples?

A tax benefit that comes with marriage???? You lost me on that one, I can be claimed as a non-working dependant to my husband but I wouldn't call that a benefit. It would be called degrading to me!

As for gay marriage like I said before the tax law descriminates against you for being married so why bother...

straight or gay it is the same..

if your married you stop getting gsp rebate, your child tax credit goes down and your insurance rates on everything goes up.. there is more a lot more wrong with the damn system...

yah no matter how influencial you are as a lawyer you can't buy your way into the system, the government clerks run that and most of them are pretty honest without fear of gay lawyers threatening them or bribing them... gay or not...

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Sara, even though gayandproud is likely some figment of Dirk's imagination, you make some excellent points.

Mac said...

The guy mentioned pretty much everything you and your commentors have been railing about:

You missed a couple, Dirk...

- lawyers
- influence peddling

Zac said...

Joanne, I think your newfound buddy gayandproud is having a bit of fun with you. I doubt he is legit.

sorry about the italics, I'll try better next time

Zac said...

You missed a couple, Dirk...

Mac, add unions, activist judges, or the media to the mix and I think you've got a post that would enrage any Conservative.

Mac said...

You could be right, Zac. The funny part is... I wasn't enraged. Oh well!

Zac said...

I didn't really expect any outrage, just joking around a bit.

Mac said...

Really? Are you sure?? I've heard you liberal types don't have a sense of humour... :o

RGM said...

An interesting theory you suggest here. I personally don't correlate my support for SSM with the supposed extra income that same-sex couples may enjoy to pump into the economy, but if some see that as a basis, that's their prerogative.

Zac said...

Really? Are you sure?? I've heard you liberal types don't have a sense of humour... :o

Mac, it was actually taken away from us at the '99 Convention. Trying to re-engage the grass roots Paul Martin gave it back to us in 2004. That was a good day.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

RGM - I'm just saying that some of the support may be a little less altruistic than first meets the eye.

Dirk said...

"Sara, even though gayandproud is likely some figment of Dirk's imagination"

Give me a break.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

I know. It's giving you too much credit.

Dirk said...

Sara:
"I said before the tax law descriminates against you for being married"

There are loads of ways couples can benefit from being married with regard to their taxes. In the case of you, where your husband earns money and you don't (I'm assuming this based on your "non-working dependant" comment), there are ways your husband can shift some income to you to reduce the amount of taxes you pay as a family. There's other stuff too, for instance, if you make political donations or charitable donations your husband can claim them as well.

I agree this is not enough. I'm a big fan of an idea Garth Turner is championing in the form of a family-based tax return. He talks about it on his site a lot, in case you're interested.

Sara said...

Yes, he can claim me but the lack of respect for a non-working dependant as I say makes me want to choke. Donations, retirement whats that? We have 3 girls, and I just had to buy my oldest her first bra dammit, not one but TWO. Do you know how much they cost... I won't go into detail but we are broke just like the rest of you, we just make sure we feed our kids and keep them reasonably clothed... oh yah and loved but that comes with the package automatically.

There are benefits but if you weigh both we are under and would benefit as a single parent more than married... gay or not

I agree with Garth too but I'd like to add some more to his sugestions... income splitting will only help the middle and upper class, don't get me wrong I"M ALL FOR THAT. Except we cannot exclude anyone, single parents, non custodial dads or moms, grandparents, disabled children etc... We are working on it though the wheels in my head go round and round until one day heehee....


Yes, Zac does have a sense of humor that is why we keep the little bugger around. He's our fav enemy and he shall be protected under our mothers wings lol....well ok he's a good one to debate and he makes me laugh is that enough for you...

Mac said...

Zac is fun but Joanne just gave me a pretty good chuckle too.

I know. It's giving you too much credit.

Zac said...

But my Mom says I'm cool....

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Mac - Thanks. Slam, dunk!

Zac - What can I say? You bring out the maternal instinct in Sara, Soccermom and me.

vicki said...

joanne...you are 'implying' that zac is young and needs protection....

Zac said...

You bring out the maternal instinct in Sara, Soccermom and me.

Well hey, my mom couldn't bring the Tory out in me, so I'm not sure if you guys will be able to. But I appreciate the effort.

Thumbs up all the way...you too Vicki.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

We like you just the way you are, Zac. It's actually comforting to know that there are thoughtful, concerned young people like Riley and yourself in the Liberal fold. They need all the help they can get!

Blake said...

Joanne - "I know. It's giving you too much credit."

Not so much, Joanne. It doesn't exactly take a ruse or any hard work to beat the stuffing out of you around here. If Dirk wanted to hammer you, he could do it without doing something so a) unlike him and b) cheap and churlish.

I can see why you'd accuse dirk of that, though, Joanne: after all, to you, that probably seems like a pretty slick move. To people with a little more refined tastes, like dirk and I, we don't go in for that kind of crap.

TangoJuliette said...

Hey Blake, O thou sagacious muncher of the brown:

you still bragging about your 'refined' tastes? Who else but you would still want to combine words like ***p and taste in the same posting. Verbal thuggery at its chimpiest.

yikes!!!

TangoJuliette said...

Blake:

... and Mister John Crapper, U.K. inventor of the first flush toilet tells me that he is shocked, I say, SHOCKED and Appalled, at your strange tastes.

Blake said...

And nobody, at all, ever is amused at your feeble attempts at humour.

But I'll give your extra chromosome credit for that attempt: it really pulled out all the stops.

TangoJuliette said...

Blake speaks for EVERYBODY!!

I am truly humbled by universal rejection.

Now,Blake: are you really speaking for everybody, or just for the ones with, you know, strange dietary practices?

Blake said...

"Now,Blake: are you really speaking for everybody, or just for the ones with, you know, strange dietary practices?"

I'll let that stand as its own rebuttal.

Worst. Comeback. Attempt. Ever.

Mac said...

I sometimes find tangojuliette's humour to be amusing... whereas I always find blake's supercilious criticism to be obnoxious.

If I had to pick tangojuliette or blake to be thrown down a flight of stairs repeatedly, blake would have to change his handle to Slinky.

There is an upside, blake... everyone loves a Slinky...

Blake said...

Well, Mac, if anybody is probably knowledgeable in repeated head-first trips down a flight of stairs, judging by your writing style, I'd say it'd be you.

Mac said...

Sorry, blake. I'll use smaller words for you next time.

Blake said...

That's fine. I think you've just about exhausted your vocabulary by this point, anyhow, and I didn't really expect anything different.

And you can choose smaller words in any of the four languages I speak besides English at your convenience as well.

(But I'll give it to you: that was a pretty sweet comeback. Especially by this blog's standards: well done.)

Mac said...

How ironic... the last guy who bragged to me about speaking four languages was a fatuous popinjay whose sole achievement in life was learning one more language than the three which his parents taught him. What an obnoxious git that guy was!

Blake, for all I care, you can claim to simultaneously paint masterpieces with your toes while juggling bowling balls with your hands and singing 'Ave Maria' in your four languages. Your self-appointed role as sanctimonious critic annoys me.

Some of us (ie: the mature ones) don't feel any need to brag about our achievements, particularly here in the relative anonymity of a blog. Instead of projecting superiority or intellectual prowess they desire, braggarts reveal their insecurity.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Mac, that was awesome! Home run, and out of the park!!

Blake said...

I agree with Joanne: best home run in T-Ball I've ever seen.

The reason I function as a critic - whether or not you view me as "sactimonious" is up to you and doesn't bother me at all - is because of the dearth of actual dialogue in a blog like this where the blogger has next to zero public policy knowledge and the intellectual integrity to match. Think back to "secret Liberal plot!" and posts like this. If you want to call me out for challenging stuff like that, you've shown a lot about your character by the person with whom you've cast your lot.

Joanne is nothing but a partisan parrot with the critical thinking ability of an acutely retarded box turtle. She demonstrates that every time she writes here, and anybody with any experience in doing this kind of material in an academic forum recognizes it for how meaningless it really is.

If you want to say that I'm somehow insecure, whatever. I'm the only one posting on here by my full and real name, linking to my blog, and have been candid about my life's history. Insecure, I'm not.

To be perfectly honest, I don't care about anybody's speculations about me around here. Joanne's cheerleaders show that they don't have the critical ability to see past her total crap, so I'm not terribly broken up about it. I mean, if you're taking up for some cougar with a huge Lorrie Goldstein crush (blech!) and zero ability to interact with the world around her, have it at. If you want to pretend that that somehow makes you more of a man or any less of a white bread hack, that's your business. But if you're calling out others, keep a firm gaze in the mirror before you do so. To do less is hypocritical.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

She demonstrates that every time she writes here, and anybody with any experience in doing this kind of material in an academic forum recognizes it for how meaningless it really is. And yet my critics continue to waste their time reading this total crap written by a a partisan parrot with the critical thinking ability of an acutely retarded box turtle.

Quite amazing. I am surprised that anyone with such high intelligence would bother to waste their time here.

TangoJuliette said...

mac: thnx for the " lesser of two weevils" vote of confidence. Don't think I could survive another tumble down the stairs without a parachute. Might lose my BASE standing there.

As for Blake and his lofty claims of being a linguist. As cunning a linguist as he might think himself to be, 4 0r 5 tongues seems a little impoverished in the polyglot department, as I understand it.

"Hey everybody. Look at me. I can be obnoxious and toxic, in four or five languages. Not like the rest of you slugs.!!"


"Oui. Blake is fah-bu-luss. In many tongues. Believe it! For a boy hoooo loves braun t'ings ... well, he IS something else."

Xavier Berlshclitsz iii




"Ah! DA!! He is often the winner of our Dorque of The Day Award."

Anatoly Krapchukoff Pravda/TASS, Mens'Room supervisor.

Blake said...

"Quite amazing. I am surprised that anyone with such high intelligence would bother to waste their time here."

The reason is fairly simple, Joanne: accountability. You have no problems chattering on about supposed Liberal/socialist failings in that department, so at least have the integrity to stand up and be accountable for what you write.

At some level, as a Blogging Tory, what you write reflects back on the Conservative Party. I frankly think most Conservatives are capable of better thought and rhetoric than what you put forth here, and I'd dare guess that you are, too. Integrity demands that you post better quality stuff.

I'd rather prefer I'd never seen your blog to begin with. I rue the day I did. But I think I can make a positive contribution to your blogging, and I will continue to attempt to do so.

BTW, since you've enable comment moderation (wise decision, I might add), you're now partly accountable for what TJ writes. You approved that to be published. So the next time you want to go on a rant about morals and integrity, think back to that post and your role in letting it see the light of day.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Ah, but know you'll never know what didn't get through!

TangoJuliette said...

"...BTW, since you've enable comment moderation (wise decision, I might add), you're now partly accountable for what TJ writes. You approved that to be published. So the next time you want to go on a rant about morals and integrity, think back to that post and your role in letting it see the light of day...." Blake.

* * * * * * * * * * * *


Hi Joanne. What on earth is Blake the boy genius whining about now? Did I step on his widdle toes again, somehow? OOOOhhhhh, Sowwy Blakie. tj

"Hey everybody, look at me. Some meany has said or done something that I don't like, so NOW it's almost all Joanne's fault, for what she does and doesn't let through from that meanie TJ. You will note however, that she just seems to let nasty me, belittle her, demean her and talk down to her,and most of the contributors on this site. She lets me get away with all this while I ostensibly
hold her and her blog to my exacting standards and highest levels of accountability and high levels of critical thought. (O, How great I AM!)

Coward-like, I can heap almost any sort of garbage on this woman, on her site, and on those who communicate with her,and I do it with impunity because I CAN!!

Because I, and I alone, am the greatest, the linguistic, moral and intellectual equivalent of the greatest fighter in the world. Though I'm just a bottle-blonde (talk about being all upfornt about who and what one is, oh yeah!) little white guy -- with some strange tastes.

And while I think that everyone here is beneath my contempt, and can't hold a candle to me in the I.Q. department, I'll keep coming back here with my messiah complex, just to make sure all you fools see the light, of the Brilliance of Blake, The Wonder Boy." Blake

I take full responsiblity for what I say/write. And, surprise kiddies, it's all backed up and substantiated. tj


"...Joanne's cheerleaders show that they don't have the critical ability to see past her total crap, so I'm not terribly broken up about it. I mean, if you're taking up for some cougar with a huge Lorrie Goldstein crush (blech!) and zero ability to interact with the world around her,..." Blake


Joanne. I didn't realize that you were a practicing "Cougar" as Blake has published. Do you really go to strange singles bars and pick up young men half your age for bi-lateral sexual exploitation, or has mister mysogynist Blake just written himself into a Libel suit?

Wonder how that would affect any future law prospects he might be toying with. Though I think I know of a Canadian Political Party that has some nice comfy fur where he might be able to build himself a nest.

tj

Joanne (True Blue) said...

pick up young men half your age?

Sheesh!

Anyway, Lorrie belongs to Sara. We duked it out and she won.

Blake said...

"Ah, but know you'll never know what didn't get through!"

No, but I've seen what you did allow to be published. That's all I needed.

Mac said...

Glad to be of help, Joanne. You're a model of patience and I hope your sense of humour carries you through.

Tango juliette, no weevils were harmed; it was an easy choice between you and Slinky-Blake.

Blake, this is a blog, not an academic forum or media website. If you truly feel motivated to bring accountability (I doubt it) and feel you have something to offer as a critic (even less likely), why not go after the partisan hacks of the mainstream media who are paid to present unbiased media coverage but instead choose to pontificate and speculate. Come back with solid references of progress you've managed and we will applaud you.

How fascinating to hear a troll like you talking about accountability and integrity! A quick quote from Blake's blog...

2006/06/09
The Game Is (Nearly) Afoot

Something big is about to hit the Canadian blogosphere.

In my exploration of one of the blogging Tories' sites, I have come into contact with two other individuals who have had major delight tearing poor arguments and poor rhetoric apart, and even more so when we do it together. Those individuals are jdave and dirk. As most of you saw from the comments earlier this week, we have had our first meeting to plan out going live in a collaborative project.

Tentatively named "Club Accountability" (name under serious review), we've found out that we have excellent ideas to continue our "blogosmear" activities alive, as well as to advance thoughts of our own. We think we'll be reasonably successful, and we have the brainpower and the support from other sources (tkdkid2002 and :believe: - thanks, y'all) to make this a big deal. We know we also have the entertainment value, and the absolute lack of ethics when it comes to humour, as laughter erupted over my statement that, "with us, there are more different slants than at a Chinese Film Festival."

More details to follow. Joanne, this would be the time for you to close up shop and save yourself the embarrassment. But I'm thinking that the three of us can provide enough daily laughs by hammering the poorer Canadian bloggers of all political stripes. Stay tuned for details, but we're determined to do this.

And Club 519 will be live within the week as well. I'm a busy fella.

posted by Blake at 5:45 PM

Textbook trolls playing their sick games. If I were you, Joanne, I would simply ban Blake and his ilk.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Mac, thanks for your continued support and your positive contribution to this blog. I knew about C.A.'s little game, but I was reluctant to totally ban them. I had done that before to Omar, but after what I see going on here, Omar is a saint! (Sorry, if I offended you there, Omar, since you lean towards atheism).

However, since it appears that most folks here are getting fed up with this type of pointless trolling, I am only going to allow constructive comments through. If C.A. takes that as some kind of sign that I can't take criticism, so be it.

Here's my suggestion to you guys - If you don't like what I write, tear it apart on your own blogs. Then at least the rest of the guests here won't be forced to wade through it. They'll know where to go for any critiques. Quite opposed to doing anything useful for this blog, you have caused it to degenerate into a raucous pit of name-calling and back-stabbing. That was never my intent. Go find someone else to hold accountable.

TangoJuliette said...

mac:

great investigative work. Your exposing/outing of slinkie's scheme is beautiful.

JOANNE TRUE BLUE:

Excellent reaction. I think that it's about time that you asserted control over your own work.

I don't have a lot of problem with much of what slinky is about intellectually and in terms of accountability, but I sure as blazes detest much of his style. (Had folks like him in positions of leadership in the military. They didn't last long. In 'Nam, many of them were gunned down. From behind. By their own troops.) Too bad about that too, 'cause he does seem to carry a pretty good head of smarts. If he survives, he could mature and be really effective.

Stewardship, I suppose, is not always an easy act to balance. Heavy lies the head that (wants to be the one who) wears the crown.

Not all that unusual a story in the world of bright folks hooking into some sort of Christianity in their teens and twenties.

Some learn, with grace, to handle and share their gifts. Others do not, becoming offensive, disruptive spreaders of discontentment, divisiveness and rancour.

Joanne, your decision is your to make. Good call. And this ain't the world series of t-ball, folks.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Thanks, TJ. I've made my decision.

Zac said...

After reading this lengthy post I have come to one conclusion:

I am pro-cougar!

I wasn't before but all of the intellectual back-and-forth has convinced me.

I thank you all, now I take my leave.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Yay, Zac!

I've been called worse than "cougar" anyway.

Mac said...

Pretty easy investigation. I just looked at Slinky's blog and there it was. I guess he couldn't help but brag about his clever plot. Nice of him to identify his cohorts, jdave and dirk, as such.

I know jdave pesters Dark Blue Tory and I've seen Blake there a couple of times as well. Perhaps I should drop a note to DBT as well?

Aside from the arrogance and the pseudo-intellectual garbage, what gets me is the intolerance.

I don't have to agree with everything Joanne says... or any blogger says... to enjoy reading it. If I don't like what I find in a blog, I DON'T GO THERE!

If I think my opinion or knowledge would be helpful, I throw my two cents in. I have enough stress in my life; I don't need to seek it out.

It seems to me political blogging, as an activity, is a response to the utterly partisan and unilateral nature of mainstream media. They feed and we're expected to swallow. Some of us want to talk about the news rather than just being forcefed, particularly those of us who are right of centre.

Most Canadians aren't members of a political party. The great divide of left and right exists although the nature of our parliamentary system makes that divide less evident.

To my mind, discussion is healthy and I don't feel any need to pass judgement over spelling or grammar skills since I realize ideas defy language. The tools of logic and reason are useful but should never be used as blunt instruments.

Stepping off the soapbox.