Friday, June 09, 2006

Anarchy in Caledonia

I watched the Hamilton news tonight (CH) and couldn't believe what I was seeing. It was like something out of a made-for-TV movie, or maybe breaking news from a country under dictatorship.

Journalists were attacked and injured. Their equipment and tapes were confiscated. An elderly woman and her husband were stopped and threatened. Her husband ended up in hospital and the woman feared he had suffered a heart attack.

All the while the police watched - and (allegedly) DID NOTHING!!!

This happened today, in Ontario, Canada.

I am not making this up.

What did Premier McGuinty do? He issued a press release from his very safe sanctuary.



* * * * *

UPDATE - This isn't the first time that a reporter has been assaulted in Caledonia. (H/T to JGriffin for the link).

UPPERDATE - Conservative Christian also has a post on this subject. You can check out the comments and see where I lose my temper!


* * * * *

SATURDAY UPDATE: Please check Small Dead Animals for a link to a story about Amerian tourists being dragged from their SUV! Absolutely unbelievable.


SUNDAY UPDATE: Lots of good stuff at Jack's Newswatch about Caledonia. One link leads to a Hamilton Spectator story about the OPP finally taking action - against the town residents.

MONDAY UPDATE: McGuinty Demands Caledonia Protest End

67 comments:

PGP said...

I have to say.....McSquinty, McWeenie, McSquishy, McStupid, McStool, McGoo, McUseless, McLimpy, McWimpy, McWeasle,
McSqueeky, McLiar, McFibby, McChicken McLittle, McSpendy, McSneeky, McWaste-of-Skin, McGutless ( Wonder?)

A thought!

If Provincial authorities refuse to enforce the law or simply cannot...how do citizens force the Federal Authorities to step in?

Anyone ask for the Feds to send in the TROOPS? Or at least the RCMP.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

PGP - Thanks for THAT litany of monikers for our esteemed premier. Lots to choose from. Then there's "Dolton"..

Yeah, I was thinking about sending out an SOS to the feds.

Mac from the RCMP, send in the troops! We need you! Lawlessness in Ontario!!

Man, all the leaders have their heads in the sand. We need to boot them in the rear.

vicki said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Joanne (True Blue) said...

"Somebody has him by the Mcgotchees"

Oh, Vicki, that is funny, but also so sad and upsetting. I was watching that CH news tape again, and they were talking about 900 CHML getting inundated by phone calls this afternoon on this subject. Apparently even police officers called in saying how they were sickened by the lack of action of their fellow officers.

Something is seriously wrong in Ontario. I guess it is out of federal juristiction. We need help. Send in the army!

Blake said...

pgp:

Are all those the names that your children call you? Or can you try coming up with something not reminiscient of a Grade 3 verbal spat?

And joanne:

I know that jdave, dirk, and I have been hard on you, but I'd like to put that aside and ask for your honest thoughts.

"What did Premier McGuinty do? He issued a press release from his very safe sanctuary."

What do you expect him to do? Don riot gear and start personally attacking people?

Or maybe he could follow one of his predecesor's examples and just tell an aide to, "get those fucking Indians out of there". ;)

Don't get me wrong, nobody (including you, believe it or not) despises Premier McGuinty more than me, and few people are bigger admirers of Mike Harris, but I'm not exactly sure what else he could do in this situation.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

How about applying the rule of law?

Proud K-W Conservative said...

McDummy could tell the OPP to enforce the laws of Ontario. If that doesn't work he could ask the Feds for help. There is precedence.

Or we can talk them into submission?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Or McDummy could just hand over the province to the natives and ask for a piece of land to govern.

Blake said...

"How about applying the rule of law?"

So, he should personally go out there with handcuffs and mace and start arresting people, like Dog the Bounty Hunter, or something?

Come on, Joanne, you called him out personally for issuing a press release from safety. Therefore, you believe he should have been in the ruckus, personally doing something. Exactly what did you have in mind?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

O.K. Blake, I thought we could finally have an intelligent discussion. Back to ignoring you now. Read Proud K-W Conservative. My answer is ditto.

Blake said...

Yep, you're right on. The intelligent part of the conversation didn't even survive one question from me. Big surprise.

And I thought the OPP didn't take directives from the Premier. Isn't that what Mike Harris said at his trial? Or is Dalton McGuinty somehow more powerful than Mike Harris was?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Well somebody's got them handcuffed, that's for sure.

Anonymous said...

Canada could ask the United States Marine Corps for assistance, or perhaps NATO troops?

Surrendering to anarchist thugs is not what we pay taxes for, if this government doesn't have the resources to defend Canadians then it should ask for international assistance while priorities are re-arranged.

Blake said...

"Well somebody's got them handcuffed, that's for sure."

That's actually a good point, Joanne, and I agree wholeheartedly. So can we agree that this is an OPP matter, dealing perhaps with bad management than necessarily with the Premier per se?

Josef said...

As an American, I am sorrowed by this.

As an ally of a great Ontarian MPP we call Lady Churchill at my alma mater who I came to the aid of to help restore your democracy and became an exemplar to me, this is an embarassing day.

As a free person and a former journalist, this is yet another attack on freedom.

I can only hope Prime Minister Harper considers the War Powers Act... after all, he is a blue-tinted Trudeau or Pupatello.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Well, Blake, I am not convinced that McGuinty hasn't asked them to just stand by and do nothing. I wish we could get some expert opinion on this. It would be really interesting to know how much influence a premier can exert on the OPP.

Josef said...

Joanne;

The Emergencies Act deserves a good read and in a previous incarnation was used in 1970 by Pierre Trudeau.

Yes, troops w/ guns. In Canada.

But what's the alternative? Anarchy? Premier McGONEty out to lunch? A real Leader of the Ontario people trapped in the Education Ministry?

For that matter: Where are the traditional liberals who believe in freedom right now? Where will they stand?

PGP said...

Oh Geee......I've been mocked.
No use for Libcomsimps little man.Your feeble toungue clucking, finger wagging attempt to rebuke me for my behaviour or sense of humor just shows what a self righteous little prick you are. Go suck your thumb.

Your first minister is not necessarily my problem but since Jo and I share a little laugh in our mutual dislike of politcal phoneys like McGuinty I will continue to indulge.
In my view he is McGuilty of incompetence and probably has interfered with the handling of this fiasco in Caledonia. Yet, even if he has not then he is pathetically absent from the discussion. In short
if he is Premier of the Province then he has an Obligation to show leadership. Like maybe having a comment on why this lawlessness is being allowed to continue. Or maybe some assurance that it will be put to an end. Or that maybe the provincial authorities are going to be held accountable?
He has not.

Dirk said...

Joanne:
"I thought we could finally have an intelligent discussion."

There are a few things getting in the way of an intelligent discussion in this particular thread:
- the inability to refer to McGuinty by his real name.
- the fact that noone here knows if the lack of OPP action is indeed because of McGuinty. In spite of this, the usual chorus of Liberal haters are jumping all over him anyway, based on mere speculation.

None of this is really new here. So I'd actually like to suggest a new slogan for your blog, Joanne: "I'm rooting for the Conservatives!" There's nothing wrong with supporting the Ontario PCs or the federal Conservative party; however, what I've got an issue with is the unthinking partisanship that we see here rather often. It's like you're cheering for a sports team to kick the crap out of their opponent. It's not so much about good government as it is about having your team win. And you seem to enjoy critiquing the Liberals, whether its justified or not.

Blake said...

"No use for Libcomsimps little man."

Nice try. I'm a current member of the Ontario PCs and a lapsed member of the federal Conservative party. I worked for both Mike Harris campaigns, and sat on the local Board of Directors of my Reform Party riding association. Now, I realize that you probably don't realize that argumentum ad hominem: abusive is a logical fallacy, or what it would mean if you did, but my street cred is at least unimpeachable in this regard.

"Your feeble toungue clucking, finger wagging attempt to rebuke me for my behaviour or sense of humor just shows what a self righteous little prick you are. Go suck your thumb."

What you said wasn't funny or witty in the slightest. Nobody hates McGuinty more than I do, and I above anybody love to see a good slam on that plank. But to sink to name-calling using only "Mc----y" is just plain bad. So don't pretend I'm out here to challenge your "sense of humour".

Actually, do exactly that. It sucks. Howie Mandell thinks you're a comedic bomb.

"In short if he is Premier of the Province then he has an Obligation to show leadership."

But he is not director of the OPP. As Premier, he has no authority in that regard (and we're all grateful). In fact, in recent history if memory serves correct, a similar argument was put forward by somebody in response to accusations re: native troubles...now, who was that...must have been some Liberal not being held accountable, right...

Anonymous said...

I just watched McGuinty on the news, he is such a spineless asshole. No wonder the OPP won't do a damned thing, with that man behind them waiting to charge them and destroy their careers for doing their jobs. Do you blame them? Remember Dean? I feel sorry for all of us, particularly those of us in Caledonia. Imagine how the OPP feel watching this and knowing they can't do a thing.

RobC said...

I don't think it matters if McGuinty is the leader of the billy goat party he is obviously not doing his job. If he doesn't have the power to mandate OPP actions (as Premier) he sure as hell has the obligation to find out why the OPP are not doing their job.

Red Tory said...

When I look at pgp's avatar it always strikes me as someone in a straight-jacket. Just sayin'...

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Dirk, I am not a member of the Ontario Conservatives. I am waiting for some elected official in Ontario to show some action and take responsibility. Still waiting...


PGP - I agree 110% (Oh, that should bring out the trolls telling me I know nothing about math, and therefore have no business writing a blog.)

ROBC - right on.

RT - How does that comment advance the discussion? I am trying to discourage personal attacks from this blog - politicians excepted. ;)

Joanne (True Blue) said...

"I feel sorry for all of us, particularly those of us in Caledonia. Imagine how the OPP feel watching this and knowing they can't do a thing."

Anon, do you live in Caledonia? Do you have some background info on McGuinty? Is he actually behind this, i.e. saying he is going to charge the OPP if they interfere? I would love some kind of links on this if you have any. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

I wrote this in another comment section on a different blog:

The emergency telephone number in Caledonia is not 911. It's 912.

Perhaps what Caledonia needs is police Chief Wiggum from the Simpsons.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

"The emergency telephone number in Caledonia is not 911. It's 912."

Now THAT'S funny! (and sad).

We citizens need to do something about this situation. Now let's hit the "any key" to get started.

Alberta Girl said...

Didn't a former Preimer get slammed (charged??) for saying Get those f#*#^ing I@($)#*ns out of there (note use of symbols to protect myself from political correctness).

Well seems that the more things change, the more they stay the same, so in his words it is really time to get those f@(%&ing I*@&#*!ns out of there.

If this was any ordinary anglo saxon Canadian doing this, the barricades would have been down long ago and charges would have been laid and they would be sitting at home under house arrest in the good Canadian way.

How come these clowns get to terrorize a community with no consequences. Something smells here.

TangoJuliette said...

Jo Ti Blue:

Too bad about the monkey wrenchers in the works. They still seem to like to lecture and parade their self-declared bonafides.

They sound like they wouldn't recognize team-players if a bus-load of team players fell on them. Team? That'd be sorta like the bunch of folks that help cancer-patients cope with their problems. Or cardiac patients with by-passes and such. Or very tall guys to drop balls into slightly larger hoops. too bad this seems to be such a foreign concept to the brainiacs in our universe. Maybe they didn't have any basketball courts when they were growing up?

As well, would the intelligentsia please bless us mere mortals with yet another insight into their vast caverns of universal knowledge and tell us what exactly is their proper "Logic" label for the mind games they seem to be playing.

Blog boss says something which the WiseMen shoot down. Then they take Jo's line of thought, and run it out to the most absurd opposite directions, shooting down these bizarre position as if the words they have put into Jo's mouth are her very own off-the-wall blathering statements.

As to their question of waht the blazes our Premier could do?

Let's see. He's the highest elected official in the province. Supposedly there to act on behalf of all the people of the province. What's his job description call for in situatins like this? What's the chain of command, and what's the link between the Government and the Provinvial Police Force? What role does (or should) the Ontario Attorney General or Justice Minister have to play in all of this? How far from the border is all this taking place? is this in any way heading to another Oka?

I understand from many of Blake's postings that he is obviously on the most intimate of speaking terms with many of the top sports figures and entertainment personalities, both living, and dead. How else could he be able to so gallantly cite their condemning thoughts and feelings about so many of us who write in to this blog? Danny Kaye is shocked and apalled, by the way. As is the late WWII Prime Minister Willy King.

As well, Blake must been present, or at least have been a fly on the wall at the cabinet meeting in 1995, with recording equipment under his little wings, or he wouldn't so cavalierly be trying his damndest to yet again float out to the blogsphere, something that seems,at best,to be a quote of questionable veracity, but possibly good for a legal slap upside that swollen head, once his dear friend, Mike Harris, learns of this B.S.

Surely, der preem Dalton COULD come up with something a bit better than what he's dazzled us with to date.

I mean, "Bad Boy" Mel, who was pleased to often declare his "fear of scary guys" like Harper, was still able to mobilize the bluddy under-armed and under-staffed CANADIAN ARMY OF PEACE to take up arms and shovels against the horrible and vile invading White-ness of Snow. Now THERE was a pol who knew the deal with "lard 'n' ardour."

And Red Tory? --pgp's "avatar?" Really??


typos,e. & o.e.

kelly said...

Just got back from vacation and I am stunned to find out that the standoff in Caledonia is STILL going on! My personal belief here is that SOMEONE is telling the police NOT to do their job otherwise, this would be all over and people would be in jail. Something is very wrong here, but I have no idea how to find out who is handcuffing them. All I know for certain is, that if I and a group of like minded people tried to get the government to hear my side of whatever story I might have, set up a blockade across a provincial road and dug it up, I would been cooling my heels in jail right now.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Kelly! Welcome back!!!

Can you imagine what would happen if the Caledonia townsfolk set up a blockade on the reserve?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

"But he is not director of the OPP. As Premier, he has no authority in that regard (and we're all grateful)."

Blake, apparently some folks disagree (from today's Toronto Star):

"Conservative Leader John Tory said the latest assault shows that McGuinty and the Liberals have failed to show leadership to resolve this dispute.

"We see fisticuffs, we see people being assaulted, and yet no one is standing up for the rule of law," Tory said yesterday.

"The police are in an impossible position. I think it's time that Mr. McGuinty really took note of what's going on down there and sent a signal that the rule of law is going to be held."

Yesterday, federal Human Resources Minister Diane Finley (Haldimand-Norfolk) said in a letter to a constituent that she wants Queen's Park to authorize the police to "clear the protest site so that our community can return to normalcy."


So who is running the asylum right now? That's what I want to know.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

And from CTV:

"New Democrat Leader Howard Hampton said the government has let tensions in Caledonia escalate for too long.

"What we now see is almost day by day altercations,'' Hampton said."

Who is in charge? The opposition leaders seem to think that the government has authority to do something to end the anarchy.

kelly said...

Someone has to be "in charge". The question is, who is it and why aren't they doing anything about it? What are they afraid of? If that happened across highway 21 up here even for a day or two, it would be awful. I can't imagine what it must be like to live in Caledonia right now. I think the longer this goes on, the more entrenched it gets, and the longer it will be to have any kind of peace and healing between the natives and non-natives.

Blake said...

"Then they take Jo's line of thought, and run it out to the most absurd opposite directions, shooting down these bizarre position as if the words they have put into Jo's mouth are her very own off-the-wall blathering statements."

Actually, all I did was try to figure out what Joanne was saying. She condemned McGuinty from issuing a press release in safety. I asked what, then, he was supposed to do and got no specific response. So don't go accusing me of Straw Man argumentation when I actually tried to find out just exactly what Joanne thought Premier McGuinty should do.

"Let's see. He's the highest elected official in the province. Supposedly there to act on behalf of all the people of the province. What's his job description call for in situatins like this? What's the chain of command, and what's the link between the Government and the Provinvial Police Force? What role does (or should) the Ontario Attorney General or Justice Minister have to play in all of this?"

If you've ever taken a first-year PoliSci course, you'll learn that there is, by design, a separation between lawmakers and the civil service in a democratic government. This is especially important when it comes to law enforcement and the military. Dalton McGuinty is NOT - and we all breathe a huge sigh of relief - the director of the OPP. He does not issue orders to them. The OPPs job is to enforce the law as it currently exists, not be the Premier's personal security service. If he did call them to attempt to order them to act in such-and-such a way, I would hope they would just hang up on him. The OPP is supposed to be a depoliticizied police force, and that's all. If the OPP is not doing its job properly, then the upper brass needs to be replaced by the duly appointed supervisory authorities.

"Danny Kaye is shocked and apalled, by the way. As is the late WWII Prime Minister Willy King."

I realize you're about as original as the crap I took as last night, TJ (and far less appealing), but form plagarism is never cool.

"As well, Blake must been present, or at least have been a fly on the wall at the cabinet meeting in 1995, with recording equipment under his little wings, or he wouldn't so cavalierly be trying his damndest to yet again float out to the blogsphere, something that seems,at best,to be a quote of questionable veracity, but possibly good for a legal slap upside that swollen head, once his dear friend, Mike Harris, learns of this B.S."

Yep, I'm sure Mike's lawyers will be down here post-haste, TJ. He'd be all over an opportunity to look like a bully for suing a lower-income guy who actually isn't attacking him, I'm sure.

Blake said...

"Who is in charge? The opposition leaders seem to think that the government has authority to do something to end the anarchy."

That's true, they do think that way, but I'd like to hear the actual solutions they propose. I'm sure Mr. Hampton would propose a provincial Ministry of Dispute Resolution with a healthy budget. Making general statemets like, "they should uphold the rule of law" isn't helpful. Finley's statement is better, if a little unfeasable.

Josef said...

Quick question this morning: Where are the lefties that fumed about PM Harper's inability to work w/ the Ottawa Press Corps now that members of the press have been assaulted?




Had to pose the question.

Soccermom said...

People are breaking the law. Every day that this goes on they are becoming more emboldened. Give in to them, and you'll be seeing similar tactics started across the country. Tell the cops to go in there and arrest those lawless people, throw them in the clink and have them appear in court. If the cops won't do it, time for the army to be sent in. If it was any other group of people, they would have spent some quality time in jail by now.

TangoJuliette said...

Well Blake,

Thanks for your clarifications. Straw man arguments. And Equivocation. Thot you'd certainly be quite good at one of these little games. But both? Wow!! Thank you for underlining it all so clearly.

Equivoaction, backpeddling and a rather strange preference for 12-hour aged crap. That sounds just so much like you. Which may well be the reason you're still quite full of both: **it and yourself.

And when it comes to form plagiarism.... you ought to know, O Vaunted One. You may think that you've got a mind like a steel trap, but from here it just looks like a pile of rust and squeaks. Smells worse than that.

Straw man. Equivocation and a preference for 12-hour old crap! We just scored on the Trifecta sonny. We might want to enter you in the Belmont or something. Could we call you Goldilocks? But just who could we get to ride you??

What you learn in school, combined with a buck-fifty, just might be worth a cuppa coffee in some littl out of the waY cafe.

But please don't embarass yourself by thingking that you've got either street smarts, or serious credentials. You're just a kid with a decent IQ. Nothing you've earned. Just luck of the gene-pool draw.

Blake said...

"Equivoaction, backpeddling and a rather strange preference for 12-hour aged crap."

1) I haven't equivocated anything at all in this conversation.
2) I don't recall backpeddling. Your lack of specific documentation is telling. And not surprising.
4) I only prefer 12-hour aged crap to you.

"But just who could we get to ride you??"

Your wife and mother have both had the privilege.

"What you learn in school, combined with a buck-fifty, just might be worth a cuppa coffee in some littl out of the waY cafe."

Which is still a cup of coffee more than you're worth.

"Just luck of the gene-pool draw."

This coming from somebody who drowned in the shallow end of the gene pool. Yep, really meaningful, this.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Kelly, you have a good point. This could easily spawn more lawlessness near other reserves. On the other hand, if the OPP start throwing natives in jail, that could really ignite some problems. It's all like this huge cauldron of kerosene just waiting for a lit match.

kelly said...

And the question remains, who is the backlash coming from if we throw lawbreakers in jail (who happen to be native in this scenario)? I believe we are in this situation because we have done nothing to stop the natives when they do break the law. This reminds me of a case in Owen Sound many years ago. I am going by my memory so I may not get the sequence of events correct. There was a subdivision newly built. Houses were built, people bought, paid for and moved into their homes. Everything was fine. Then, I believe, a native lawyer (or going to be one), was looking through old archives and came across an old burial ground that happened to be were one of the houses was built. Investigations proved that there was no longer any bodies buried there, but the natives wanted the land back. The negotiations weren't going fast enough, so the natives camped out in front of this home (where people were living, lit bonfires and drummed all night long for over a week (may have been more) until someone (I am assuming someone in government) stepped in and paid the people in the house to move, gave the land AND the house to the natives which they moved to their reserve. Was this a fair outcome? Maybe, but wasn't fair was the tactics used to get what they wanted. Caledonia and the police inaction continue to prove that they can break any law they want and get away with it. Things will continue to escalate until "the powers that be" get a back bone.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Kelly, you have a good point, and living close to native territories in the Bruce, this hits close to home, I guess.

Imagine how that type of thing would affect tourism! Not sure if you read the latest update on this post, but apparently American tourists were the victims of a car-jacking as well yesterday. The police did zip, as I understand.

TangoJuliette said...

"What did Premier McGuinty do? He issued a press release from his very safe sanctuary." joanne

What do you expect him to do? Don riot gear and start personally attacking people? Or maybe he could follow one of his predecesor's examples and just tell an aide to, "get those fucking Indians out of there". ;) blake


"Actually, all I did was try to figure out what Joanne was saying. She condemned McGuinty from issuing a press release in safety. I asked what, then, he was supposed to do and got no specific response. So don't go accusing me of Straw Man argumentation when I actually tried to find out just exactly what Joanne thought Premier McGuinty should do." blake

Blake. Still looks like sh*t-eatin' equivocating to me. You're nailed for straw man crap, you don't like it. Tough. You resort to confessions of sh*t-preferences, and then resort to gutter-snipe low life character assassiantions of women you never met.

What's that a sign of: more of your brilliantly tolerant all-encompoassing mysogonistic chauvanistic rape fantasy?

By the way, since you claim to have been a virgin until your honeymoon, (and judging by your stated diet preferences, I can well imagine the bad butt-breath problems you undoubtedly experienced), did your alleged assignations with "my mother and my wife" take place before or after your one minute miracle with your wife?

And was that before or after she "pulled the whole train" down at the corner bike shack? "Cause legend has it that she was really experienced before she met saintly little blonde-headed goldilox-boy. Mom and Daisy Mae didn't really consider riding you a privilege. In fact, they compared the whole thing to a 58-second hemerroid experience. However, one quick dose of Prep H and you were naught but a foul memory. For all of another minute.

Anyway little man, your shit-eatin' grin, so evident in your writing, is now fully understood. You also flatter yourself to think that I would allow myself to be on your menu.

" 4) I only prefer 12-hour aged crap to you. " blake

Hey there of Sage! Save this above quoted item (#4.) Doesn't do it for me, but I'm sure your own mom and wifey so pure would love something along these lines for Mothers' Day or Valentines, along with a box of your favourite "chocolates."

Remember fudge muncher: dudes like you are really cool, especially when one is short on Caopectate. How early in your life did your family and friends start calling you s**t-for-brains?

Of all the bidet joints in the world....

Brush your teeth and gargle.

I'm done with you.

-30-

kelly said...

Ahh, this reminds me of another episode I believe took place in Ipperwash. Some poor americans on their boat got stranded on the beach there. Some people who lived down the way let them stay overnight. Can't remember if the police weren't let in or wouldn't come in to help, but when the natives finally let the americans get a tow, their boat was completely vandalized. Nothing was done. Welcome to Canada.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Oh, yeah. That sounds familiar, Kelly. Well, McWimpy might start doing something when it cuts into the bottom line of the tourist industry.

I mean, how much would you like to go see beautiful Caledonia right now?

Blake said...

"Blake. Still looks like sh*t-eatin' equivocating to me. You're nailed for straw man crap, you don't like it. Tough. You resort to confessions of sh*t-preferences, and then resort to gutter-snipe low life character assassiantions of women you never met."

Seems like somebody can't keep his categories (or eyes) straight. This is the definition of equivocation, and I defy you to show me where I've engaged in this. In fact, I already have, and you can't, other than by screaming that I've engaged in it, without demonstrating it. Classy, and smart. This is the definition of straw man argumentation, and if you can show me where I've misrepresented Joanne's position, I'd be interested in seeing it. Repeating a statement and saying, "aha! Straw man!" doesn't really work unless you can actually show where the straw man is.

"What's that a sign of: more of your brilliantly tolerant all-encompoassing mysogonistic chauvanistic rape fantasy?"

More like, being locked into conversations with imbeciles and having to adjust my thinking accordingly.

"By the way, since you claim to have been a virgin until your honeymoon, (and judging by your stated diet preferences, I can well imagine the bad butt-breath problems you undoubtedly experienced), did your alleged assignations with "my mother and my wife" take place before or after your one minute miracle with your wife?"

It was right after your long weekend in the Poconos with JJ Redick, so, I don't remember. After, I guess.

Look, this is just amusing to see. You've tried to call me out on my actual serious posts and self-destructed, doing yet another impressive face-plant. And we can go back and forth in this hair pull-a-thon, with me just finding the predictable albeit more entertaining ways of insulting your family's sexual history, but you know what? Forget it. You're not worth my time. Have a nice day.

TangoJuliette said...

Blake:

Thnx. It's a fabulous day. You look a little whipped there, with your tail between your legs. Amd what's your missus called? Is it Casey Jones, pulling that train. Or is it Charmaine, your main squeeze?

And you consider yourself a Christian bare-knuckle scrapper? You're an insult to both.

Has your boss yet taught you haw to do add-on sales? Like, "would you like some TP or fries or gravy with your 12-hour pile?" Sound like that would be right up yours. Sorry. That ought to read: Sounds like that would be right up your alley. But it just comes out the same, doon't it goldyboy?

About that other stuff, you know, straw me, and all that. Pointed it out to you, but it seems that in addition to being more than a little thick in the head, you might be a bit shy in the eyesight department. I understand that bobbing for turds can lead to blindness and headaches/tumours what with the seat smacking you onm the back of the head, or if you're bobbing in unclean bowls. Seems to be the case with you. Like I said, Doctor Donna Ward would certainly contribute to you leading a slightly happier life.

Oh, one more thing -- that bleached blonde look? Fetching. Does it come out of a bottle, the toilet bowl or is that from wearing the cheap tin-foil as a helmet?

Other than that: You are one melon-headed hoot, kid. Come back when you get some heart, some stamina and finally get to grow yourself a pair.

Tango Juliette said...

Blake da golden-boy:

Try "equivocate" as in the dictionary definition. It ain't all frosh logic sonny.

Blake said...

TJ:

Going "bare-knuckle" with a guy whose bare knuckles are used for anything except fighting doesn't sound to appealing.

Feel free to continue your mastrubatory posting (i.e. all to yourself.)

(And, since categories often escape you, it is appropriate to point to the exclusive logical definition of "equivocation" when that's what you're accusing me of. But I just figured you didn't know what the hell you were talking about, which is usually the case.)

vicki said...

tj...I always appreciate your creative comments when you stay on topic. Joanne has a great blog here. I know blake has delusions of grandeur and a very condescending attitude but please for joanne's sake...tone it down. I'm assuming you are a guy...chill the testosterone.

Taqngo Juliette said...

Blake -- youi're such a party "pooper."

No, I was accusing you of backpeddaling in regards to Joanne's comments.

But I must be wrong about my intent. The brown nosed Boy Genius has finally told me what I really meant to be saying.

Ane there you go again making all those dumb, shit-eater assumptions. In this case, about bare knuckle fighting. Your knuckles are probably more scarred from dragging along the pavement and having toilet seats falling on them, than any other manly cause, pugilistic, or other.

Your much earlier comment about "third grade" pettiness or whatever you accused somebody of, certyainly pointed to all your subsequent bright, and oh so much more mature and sophisticated comments and put-downs. Odd how they all seem to have a lot of emphasis on anal fixations, defacation and stool fixations, strange, aberrant and frequent references to sexual congress between any manner of strange and unique combinations of persons. So what's that put you at? advanced Grade Four, or retarded grade five level? I've been away from that kiddie nonsense for so bloody long, it took an infantile turd like you to bring back those nasty and petty little memories.

Maudits es mangeur du merde.

-30-

Blake said...

TJ:

I'll let Vicki's comment stand. And point out that you have about as much class as high school in August.

And that will be our last exchange.

TangoJuliette said...

Vicki. Hey! :

I stayed on topic. It happened to be a topic of my choosing. The topic was the erradication of the infestation of super-hyper arrogance by pencil-necked twerps with bad attitude and worse breath.

I stayed on topic precisely because I agree with you about Joanne's site. It doesn't deserve the nonsense Blake and his loonytoone yahoo bible pals like to try to inflict.

Personally,I have mixed thoughts about the Caledonia impasse.

For some of my background on this you'd have to track down a 1960's or early 1970's NFB film made by a fellow I grew up with, down by the waterfront in the lower east side of Montreal. The fellow's name is Willy Dunne, of Iriquois and Metis roots. We spent a nuimber of years toegther in the Canadian Army, as well. He wrot, produced and directed the film as well as recorded most of the soundtrack with his own original music, through an NFB-initiative which I think was code named Project X or some such thing.

His film is called "The Ballad of Crowfoot." Deals a lot with White/Native treaties. The signing and the breaking of same.

Truly worth a look if one can find a print or copy of it. I've heard most of the arguments for anmd against the natives and their claims. But two tings really stand out in my mind.

From what I have seen and from what I have heard and read and learned about, this country is pretty well built on genocide-- so I don't think that we've got all that much to teach the rest of the bigotted woirld.

Of all the aboriginals who served during the hell of WWII, with the two most decorated soldiers in Candadian military history both being natives, Tommy Prince died on the slumside streets of Winnipeg, and I don't remember the other fellows history at the moment.

But they all fought with courage and with honour, and the ones that I had the privilege of serving with, were probably some of the fiercest allies you'd ever want on either flank of yours, in a fire fight or a barroom brawl.

Yet, and here's the second thing that really sticks out in my mind, more improtant than the apartheid of reserves, and 5, 6, 7 generations of foetal alcohol effect and foetal alcohol syndrome-- one of the more astounding facts is that these people were NOT ALLOWED to vote in any Canadian Elections until 1967.

But I just felt that I had to tangle with the ubernasty and insulting mental midget and all the static that he was creating on this site.

shalom & namaste

tj


typos e. & o. e.

william said...

It's time for the citizens of Caledonia to take matters into their own hands.

First: the Mayor should gather any police in the area who will support there action. If there aren't any, deputized citizens will do.

Second: Contact all justices of the peace in the area and demand they stand ready to file charges.

Third: rent some large trucks or trailers (for temporarily housing those arrested).

Fourth: send out the call for volunteers, (I'll go, any other takers?), we should easily be able to round up a couple a thousand deputies and together we will march down to the barricades.

Fifth: Arrest, dis-arm, and de-uniform any and all Opp officers who resist, those that want to join the operation will be allowed (this will be their last and only chance at salvaging their career) the charges will be...derelection of duty and obstructing justice...

Sixth: Arrest all native protesters and dis-mantle the barricades..

Thats how it is done Caledonians, you have the right, any citizen can make a citizens arrest,
you need only witness a crime, looking at that native barricade is being witness to a crime.

Soccermom said...

Amen, William, well said. I wonder how quickly the Natives would be crying "Assault, abuse!"

vicki said...

tj...thanks for clarifying your thoughts about the Native issue.It is apartheid...different laws according to race.It is very discouraging to watch what appears to be a 'do not move' order for the OPP.
BTW I am a Bible believing Christian...

vicki said...

joanne ...there is a story in jack's newswatch(June 8) that pretty well clarifies where the police are getting their orders...who holds the purse strings?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Vicki, thanks for trying to clean things up here. I may have to get in and do some heavy-handed deleting if this continues. That would be a shame.

Do you have a link for that article or blog, Vicki (Jack's)? I've been trying to find it with no luck. But I've been at a wedding and very tired. Maybe I'll try again in the morning. Thanks for the heads-up anyway.

Tango Juliette said...

Vicki:
about that being a beleiver part? I am, as well. Have been since 2 feb 66. Still have some questions. The only reason I referenced the faith issue, is that the fellow I was dealing with seemed to have made similar claims. In light of this, I found his comments offensive, in the extreme.

As I mentioned in a number of previous posts, however, and I'm willing to concede that I may be way off base here, I am no longer prepared to assume the role of meek and mild Joe Chriswtian, always turning the other cheek, getting slapped into submission, or into the middle of next week, not physically, not verbally.

I will not initiate the nastiness, but I shall return all fire, in kind, or worse.

As for most of my testosterone levels? Mostly gone, or at least diminished, thanks to earlier life experiences.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Vicki, I found that story in Jack's Newswatch. Thanks. Lots of good stuff there!

Blake said...

"The only reason I referenced the faith issue, is that the fellow I was dealing with seemed to have made similar claims. In light of this, I found his comments offensive, in the extreme."

TJ, you are an absolute circus. You have been completely wrong about me in every last regard when you have ventured a guess about me. Even my hair colour. And my faith, which is really inexcusable, because it's fully chronicled on my blog which you can easily read by clicking on my name. Every last damned one you've been so far off base that the comeback-era Dave Steib could have picked you off.

What I will say is, you don't know how to interact particularly well. You assume your positions are correct and yet are ill-prepared for rigorous examination and get angry when it happens. You've been in churches way too long, my friend. And me too, because I'm all too familiar, both personally and as a witness, with the damage of that kind of mindset.

Now, I'm prepared to forget this exchange (including your little meltdown, there) ever happened. I'm even prepared to extend an apology for the things I said to you and escalating it. I am sorry for that, that was classless on my part, and really beneath me.

Yet I will say this:

"I will not initiate the nastiness,"

That is a blatant lie, in the context of this conversation. Who called out whom (and having nothing to do with the conversation at hand)? On what basis? Who has having a dialogue about the subject at hand with Joanne? Why, that would have been me. Who's profanity-laced rant (not using "profanity" as a pejorative category, there, just sayin', is all) totally missed the point of the line I hit you with? TJ, even Joanne's supporters abandoned you on that one, and we all know they hate me. Shouldn't that tell you something?

Look, we can act like men or forget that this ever happened and hopefully have some actual political dialogue, or you can continue acting like an animal. So far, I've played nice. But you can choose how this is going to go down.

I await your decision.

TangoJuliette said...

Hey Vicki:

Did you just see that? Some pushy person trying to cut in on OUR conversation. All the while berating me for supposedly doing something similar. All of this after declaring that we would never communicate again. Methinks this site needs tighter security regulations, along with stricter sanity rules and sanitation laws.

Is it my eyesight or does the interloper have a splotch of "brown" on his chin and nose?

No. My eyes are fine.

Yes. The "brown" is really there.

Guess he's been dining out again. The foul smell is a dead give-away. As are the same old rotten assumptions.

I don't recall ever having said that I spend, or spent, ANY amount of time in any church, mosque, temple, ashram, sweat lodge or chapel. Mind, there WERE a few foxholes/slit-trenches back in the sixties in some unpleasant spot then called the Belgian Congo, and the baddies at that time called themselves the Simba Rebels. If one were to believe the conventional wisdom of our times, we'd have to conclude that there were very few atheists in said foxholes. Same drill and similar unpleasant times as well in a sad spot that went by the name of Biafra. No fun there. No peace-keeping there neither.

In any case,I certainly hope and pray that this intruder's attempt to "act like a man" meets with far more success than his attempt at passing himself off as The Sage of the Western World.

Boy, the absolute nerve of some of these pushy, and obviously obnoxious eavesdroppers. What's this country coming to??

As you so accurately stated in one of your earlier posts: "I know that 'so-and-so' has delusions of grandeur and a very condescending attitude but please for joanne's sake...tone it down."

You are absolutely correct.

Done!

love, joy, peace, light and happiness to all! Even those who presume to intrude!!

tj

Blake said...

Nice, TJ. Thoroughly classy, and exuding manliness. I'm sure you're one of the most popular guys in the trailer park.

Joanne:

You were talking about with friends like me, not needing enemies? Look in your corner, babe.

liberal supporter said...

Wow, Joanne, that was a long thread! I was at a wedding yesterday too, so I can only see the entrails today from this getting out of hand.

I'm glad you didn't delete the later commments, despite the descent into bathroom and excrement based insults. Sometimes leaving it up says more about the participants than anything else.

It's also appropriate as an illustration of things spinning out of control, just as they are in the original topic of the post.

You were at a wedding and look at the mess here because you were asleep at the switch. I'm sure being at a wedding is a better excuse than whatever we're going to hear as the excuse for the real world mess getting where it is. At least you can clean up this place, or just move on to another topic.

But in the real world, they can't.

I don't think it's right that the blockade exists and causes all the inconvenience it does. But I don't think it's right to "send in the army" or anything like that. I think we need to look at this in a different way.

Here's a thought. Let's look at it as a labour dispute. When workers go on strike, they deny access to businesses that they do not own. Sometimes altercations, fist fights and property damage happen. The strikers believe they have some rights to do with the business since they work there. If they have a certified union, there are more rights that they enjoy, i.e. the company cannot hire replacements.

In this case, the dispute is over land, so denying access to the land is the strike strategy. How do labour relations reach the point where strikes happen? Probably the same as this situation. How do they get resolved? Eventually by negotiation. How do the unions keep their hotheads under control? With great difficulty. The negotiated settlement usually includes dropping of a lot of charges that could otherwise be made.

I don't have a solution here. But we do get labour disputes solved, and sending in the swat teams has usually not been part of the solution.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

VERY interesting analogies, L.S.

"How do the unions keep their hotheads under control? With great difficulty."

So basically you are advocating peer-control. With the unions, it's the leaders that usually try to keep things from getting out of hand.

So, you are saying that the control should come from within the native community? It would be reassuring to some evidence of that effort, if it is indeed happening.

With the extremist elements in the Muslim community they are actually starting to talk now about that very thing. (Read Salim Mansur in the Sun).

In this blog, I am hoping that peer-control causes a reduction in the potty-talk. I don't particularly enjoy being the one-woman swat-team on this blog. My only weapons are deleting comments or giving the whole thing up altogether.

Tango Juliette said...

Vicki:

is that another whiney little one I hear trying to interrupt our tete-a-tete? Insecure little beggars, aren't they? Always clamoring to be the centre of attention, always trying to get the last word in. Always off in the corner throwing mini-tantrums if they don't always get their way, always whacking themselves on the back of the head and across their chubby, dimpled widdle knuckles, with the terlette seat.

Say, Ms. V., off-hand, would you have any idea of just what sort of toothpaste would be best for someone with this fellow's strange eating habits?

Something he could use for a paler brown smile, a bit fresher breath, something to combat possible e-coli ingestion? Just thot I'd ask you, tho it's undobtedly sometimes hard to be heard over the screeching kiddie-tots.

Hope that the kid doesn't get too "browned-off" about the lack of attention. Maybe I ought to suggest some Professional Daycare, and potty- training for him.

But no. I'll just ride out the wee one's monster temper-tantrums, and keep this conversation JUST between us. Just following the protocols, like the kid suggested.