Well, I guess I'll have to eat my words to a certain extent. My own Member of Parliament, the "Honourable" Karen Redman actually did do the honourable thing last night by voting with the yeas to extend the Afghanistan mission by two years. Complete voting details can be found in Hansard. (Time - 22:20)
What is less honourable is that neighouring riding M.P. Andrew Telegdi voted with the nays.
What is the least Honourable and definitely not Right, is that former Prime Minister Paul Martin wasn't even there to cast a vote. What does this guy do to earn his pay anyway, or is that an "entitlement"?
Now please excuse me while I try to floss the plastic out of my teeth.
Update: I may have eaten that keyboard for nothing. I was listening to Jeff Allen's "Hour of Rage" on Newstalk 570, and somebody complained that Karen Redman apparently whined that it was with "great indignation" that she voted to extend the mission.
Can anyone confirm that? It just felt too weird supporting Karen on anything. Thanks.
49 comments:
Watch out for those "odd" numbers. :)
Paul Martin was a social butterfly, no more. He was only happy when people surrounded him praising him. All the tv skits he did and the popularity publicity just hid a weak coward inside. He has no guts never did.
Zac,
I'm not saying that because he's a liberal, I read body language and he has always been like that.
The popular kid is only popular while people like them, when they get un-popular because of whatever reason they hide in the corner cowering. A true leader would never run nor ignore the populations opinions.
I found the night more frustrating than anything else. The A-team was too busy with dinner, leaving the C-team, with the likes of Ruby Dhalla and NDP backbenchers, to carry the majority of the debate. Many of them were clearly in over their heads.
I'm waiting for an explanation of where Martin was.... doubt we'll get it.
BBS - lol! Thanks for the warning!
RGM - I was just listening to Gary Goodyear on the local radio, and he made that point - The NDP big brass was noticeably absent from tbe debate. They complained that their questions weren't being answered, but they didn't bother to listen to the answers.
I have no use at all for pompous Jack Layton and his gang of yes-men and women.
Gary said that Iggy and Graham were there for most of the debate, to their credit. Ergo, their informed decision. I have new respect for them and Scott Brison (and my M.P.)
Derik - Yes; a coward.
Not just the NDP's big guns, but a lot of credible foreign policy voices from both the Conservatives and the Liberals just weren't in attendance and making regular contributions throughout the evening.
Ignatieff spoke once. While it was a good short commentary, his concept of shifting paradigms deserved more attention and analysis from both him and his colleagues.
A lot of MP's abstained from voting.
But that doesn't exclude Paul from any blame. I felt he should have been there, mostly because he was involved in the mission from the begining.
I have no problem with people abstaining from voting, but Paul should have been there.
But I think it's hard for him to walk back into the House now. Being a former PM who lost, you really have to swallow your pride in some respects.
"Ignatieff spoke once. While it was a good short commentary, his concept of shifting paradigms deserved more attention and analysis from both him and his colleagues"
I saw that, he's an awesome speaker. He also stands firm on his principles which I love, which is why I'm supporting him in the leadership race.
Your looking at a future PM here folks!
"Zac,
I'm not saying that because he's a liberal, I read body language and he has always been like that."
Sara, I love how you mentioned this, anticipating my barking later on.
Truth be told, your right on point about this one...he should have been there.
But I think it's hard for him to walk back into the House now. Being a former PM who lost, you really have to swallow your pride in some respects..
Joe Clark was a former PM who didn't have much of a problem walking back in and being a productive member in the Mulroney gov't.
Mr. Martin should just resign his seat.
"Joe Clark was a former PM who didn't have much of a problem walking back in"
Clark? Forget Clark?
I do remember that when the PC's forced out Dief, he never returned to Parliment.
And Paul should resign his seat? Buddy, do you really think that Paul will run again? C'mon!
He's serving out his term and then he's done. Back to the corporate boards, his mansions, and his sprawling cottage in northern Quebec.
Clark? Forget Clark?
Although I would like to forget Clark for altogether different reasons, why do you? Because it completely dismantles your argument that is must be hard for an ex-PM to show up?
Yes Mr. Martin should resign his seat. If Liberal supporters can't see that Mr. Martin continuing to hang around creates an easy target, then who am I to argue.
Oh yes. I'm not your "buddy".
"it completely dismantles your argument that is must be hard for an ex-PM to show up?"
It wasn't really an argument. More of an observation.
++++
"Yes Mr. Martin should resign his seat."
Hey, I think he should have been there also. He won't run again and we'll be in another election soon anyways, so whats the point really?
++++
"I'm not your "buddy"."
Awww, you don't like me? 'Cause I like you.
Z: ppmpm (that'd be past pm paul martin) has his little shack down in les cantons de l'est, or l'esterie, or the eastern townships, near the us border. better he SHOULD be in northern quebec.
Iggy? Next, or future pm? of Canada? As a Liberal? They are all going to have to come back in a whole new incarnation. Not some morally and fiscally bankrupt bunch of arrogant wheeler-dealers.
You've got to be delusional, and in a severe state of denial. As well, you might want to consider giving up on that alcohol, you seem to regard so highly -- look at what it's doing do your brain cells.
Can you people spell :
T - O - A - S - T ??
"Dr Penfield, I smell toast burning..."
Oh. And have I told you lately that I love this?
L.H.&K.
Zac,
I agree with you on Ignatieff. He's got what it takes, and I hope that the party does what is best for itself by selecting him. An election between Harper & Ignatieff would be the most intellectual in decades.
Tango, sorry I thought Paul's cottage was north, but either way. Its secluded, its expensive, its just Paul.
Not to worry Tango, we're in the process of renewal. We'll give you guys a run for your money next time around.
RGM - your right about the debate. It should be good. Both are very smart, very worldly. I'm doing my best to ensure that Iggy gets the job.
Your Kinder and Gentler fans are getting on my nerves Joanne.
Having so few of our elected representatives in parliament stand up for Duty and Responsibility is a DISGRACE!
PGP - Jack Layton and company were the worst in a collective sense.
Crass politics for the most part (IMHO).
"Your Kinder and Gentler fans are getting on my nerves Joanne."
I think everything gets on your nerves PGP.
Sara, I love how you mentioned this, anticipating my barking later on.
hehe thanks, but thats what I do I read peoples attitudes and so on. I don't go by brains I go by feelings. You I've got some but email and messages can't tell you what someone is feeling but you do portray your feelings online well. That is appreciated.
I'm still waiting for Jack Layton to make a Freudian slip and call our troops AppeaseKeepers.
The Libs were in a no-win.
Either they vote against the mission and it's a spring 2007 election; or they vote for the mission and lose the anti-war folks to the Dips.
I'm just glad that the Afghan mission is an LPC leadership issue now and not an election issue as we'll be at the polls long before the subject comes up for debate again.
"I'm just glad that the Afghan mission is an LPC leadership issue now and not an election issue as we'll be at the polls long before the subject comes up for debate again."
This is actually a very divisive issue for Libs MM. Take a stroll through the Liblogs and you'll notice how split the party really is on the Afghanistan issue.
Personally, i support the mission and was glad to see the 20 or so Lib MP's stand up and vote with the government.
Others, many others, disagree with me.
Some bloggers are actually talking about walking away from the party.
Check 'er on out...its actually kinda funny.
Zac's right...
This really is a divisive issue for the Libs... and its too bad. The problem is many MP's aren't trying to lead the party, they are trying to pandor. I feel Iggy tried to lead last night, while disgraces like Bennett sat on her thumbs hoping to score some points.
Bleeding heart 'Liberals' have no place in a centrist party. So we lose them to the NDP who cares... the seats we really lost in the last election were to the Conservatives not the NDP. Soft centre votes bailed our party for exactly the same reason we saw last night, lack of leadership down the centrist road.
If it becomes THE issue for you guys Zac, you're in big trouble.
After the convention you'll either lose a lot of votes to the Dips or to the Cons depending on who becomes leader.
You'll all have to figure out a way to turn the volume down on Afghanistan before the convention.
Go mow them grass roots. They're trouble.
Molar - "AppeaseKeepers" Ha! Good one!
Zac - Cherniak sure seems bitter.
"So we lose them to the NDP who cares..."
Riley, I like to say this sometimes too but in Hamilton, its a battle between the Libs and NDP. Not necessarily a left-wing ideological thing, but mostly because of thier union support. Now with Buzz's support gone, I'm hoping that we can take back the Hammer.
I don't think we should be too concerned with appealing to the left-wing vote. I don't think many voters are really in that place exactly. Most canadians are swing between centre-right and centre-left in my opinion.
++++
"If it becomes THE issue for you guys Zac, you're in big trouble."
I'm not sure that will happen. Like you said earlier MM, by the time the election rolls around, the debate will have died down. The only one who will mention it will be Layton and no ones listens to him in elections anyways.
It will be a hot button leadership issue though. Brison and Ignatieff have gone out of a limb. I'm proud of them, it took guts to stick to thier convictions.
Yeah Joanne, Cherniak is bitter. And you guys accuse me of being overly partisan..sheesh.
Check out liberalcatnip. She's talking about leaving the party for the dippers over this issue.
Wow, now that IS bitter! Zac, I guess you are one of the more level-headed Liberals. My admiration continues to grow. I even forgive you that comment on Omar's site.
All Things Political posted a list of Grits that didn't show up. It is a disgrace that not only Martin wasn't there, but also Goodale and Cotler. It seems to convey that the subject material isn't important.
It's disappointing that Cotler wasn't there, as he'd commented recently on his support for the mission. A commenter over at Stephen Taylor's site suggests that the Libs drew straws in a calculated method to ensure a slim victory. It's likely not the case, but some fun food for thought.
Irwin Cotler is out of the country. He has shown his support in the past.
Its too bad he's not running to lead the party, I'd vote for him in a second.
Zac - Thanks for that. Well, we will excuse Mr. Cotler then. And what was Ralphie's excuse?
I dont know...he's a jerk?
Thanks for clarifying that one, Zac.
It was disgraceful that Paul Martin didn’t put in appearance for the vote last night. He needs to stop being a dilettante or resign his seat.
As for the “debate” it was a derisory farce; an insult to parliament and to the troops who were used as pawns for Harper’s expedient political gain.
One second of pain for 2 years of gain.
If you call last night's debate and vote an insult to the troops, you must prefer to take your bandaids off really slow.
RT - As I understand it, the opposition called for the debate and vote. It is the P.M.'s prerogative to make the final decision.
That being said, the final result for me was to respect the Liberal party more for at least giving members a free vote.
everyone seems to forget that ALL parties supported having a debate and vote. In fact the CPC gov't house leader discussed it with all house leaders who spoke with the LEADERS of the parties who signed off on the vote and debate.
So I don't have much patients when the parties put up a fight now, cause they could have said NO when CPC asked.
Good point, Riley. They're just trying to cover their rear ends; politically speaking.
Yes, the Liberals could have said no to a debate... Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Harper is clever that way.
Oh, Harper is very clever...
Somone said recently that he is playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers.
Somone said recently that he is playing chess...
Yes, and the troops are his pawns. Nice.
That is rather disingenous RT. The Liberals started that particular game.
"The troops are his pawns!" Yet another classic RT spin! No matter what happens, RT finds a way to make PM Harper the bad guy.
You know, the Liberals should really try to win the next election by portraying PM Harper as being evil and determined to destroy Canada... maybe throw in a "hidden agenda" to top it off. Whatta ya think, RT?
Mac, what a novel idea! I'll bet Karen Redman hasn't heard that one yet!
Only if she's not listening to Scott Reid.
"You know, the Liberals should really try to win the next election by portraying PM Harper as being evil and determined to destroy Canada... maybe throw in a "hidden agenda" to top it off. Whatta ya think, RT?"
Perhaps the Tories should try to win the next election by portraying the entire Liberal party as crooks. Whatta ya think, Mac?
It bears consideration, Zac... but that's not how the Conservatives won the last election, is it? They ran on a solid platform of new ideas.
The Liberal corruption spoke for itself. Then there was the Liberal's negative ad campaign... Liberals in our cities... in Canada... without guns... we're not making this up...
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