Friday, May 12, 2006

Taking a Step Back

Well, this has been quite the week. I took a short hiatus, then returned with some hot-button topics. That precipitated some kind of War of the Blogs.

As I sit back and reflect on the events, I am beginning to see that there are two different types of people that author and visit blogs. One wants to debate and offer opinions in a respectful spirit; the other seeks to vilify and destroy any view that doesn't agree with their own. If they can't achieve that end with logic, they then resort to ridicule, sarcasm and malicious slander. What motivates this type of person? I can only surmise that they get some kind of twisted pleasure out of it, or that they under are under the illusion that others will somehow be in awe of their intellectual abilities.


One realization has emerged from the all the social issue discussion for me though - Contrary to what Canadians may believe, the concept that the defining of moral values is in any way a democratic process, is a myth.

It is strictly the under purview of the Supreme Court of Canada - and Jack Layton.

53 comments:

Mary said...

You have struck a true nerve there Jo!
There will be a major reaction to that probing, like hitting a raw nerve!

Zac said...

hmmmm...apparently I do a bit of both.

Thomas said...

I hope Jack Layton doesn't have to make too many moral decisions, because we all know he'll happily cast away his progressive morals if it means a few more seats in the House of Commons!

Thomas @ thelongwalk.ca

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Good point, Thomas. It seems they all have a point where expediency trumps ethics even in the Dipper world.

kleinermuck said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Mom said...

Happy Mother’s Day to my wonderful Daughter!

Love Mom

Allison said...

I can't help but think that some of the bloggers are Paul Martin's old board members - the spitefulness and the misuse of fact, the boogey man demonizations and the tendancy to attack the person rather than the idea is a mirror image of Martin's entire campaign.

But, blogs have proven to me one thing - the Liberal party is such a small tent it is now a wig wam. The Lib bloggers now want to run out the pro-life Liberal MP's and Senators. Their type, going against the "party line" are not welcome. So much for the democratic defecit and free vote on social issues that even Martin advocated. However, those who voted against SSM are also makred and one blogger went so far as to say that "the new leader of the Liberal party will be pressured NOT to sign their nomination papers" for the next election.

That just leaves the Conservative party to allow a cross section of ideas and opinions that reflect the cross section of diverse views and opinions of 33 million Canadians.

We are now THE BIG TENT party for all Canadians- come on in - there's lots of room. We celebrate diversity here.

Ain't it grand.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

lol! You too, Mom!

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Allison - Interesting comment. Never thought about it that way before. Wig-wam! Ha!! I love it.

Paul MacPhail said...

Allison, it seems to me that the Liberal bloggers are like a wigwam and a teepee - too tense (2 tents).
Looking at some of the issues in just the last week, for example the leak of the AG report and the resignation of Maurice Vellacott; these are two issues where the Libs sought to attack to distract from the real issues that concern Canadians. It's comforting to read the SES polls ( The one's that were balls-on dead accurate last election ) and see that the Liberal strategy isn't working.
Looks like the "Conservative Hidden Agenda" is left safely where it belongs, on the shelf with the "Cadbury Secret" and the "Colonel's Secret Recipe".

Zac said...

"We are now THE BIG TENT party for all Canadians- come on in - there's lots of room. We celebrate diversity here."

Ok, enjoy your big tent. Just make sure, as LBJ said, their on the inside of the tent pissing out, instead of the outside of the tent pissing in.

Have fun around the camp fire!

PUTOSAFADAO said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Mac said...

Most days, I'm up for the debate but I do recognize my sarcastic streak... I hope I've never resorted to ridicule or malicious slander. I'm not above poking fun at political caricatures as I recognize most of us are more complex than it is possible to relate easily in print.

I've seen enough the hot-button issue start entrenched arguments that I generally avoid engaging in them since rarely does good come of pitched battles of words.

Roy Eappen said...

Keep at it Joanne, you have many allies.

RGM said...

Joanne (TB), for many NDP folks that "point" is, I believe, Tuesdays. I could be wrong on that though.

Good point too on "Canadian values." I'm still trying to figure out what those are and how Paul Martin, their guarantor, managed to lose the election despite having a monopoly on them.

TangoJuliette said...

The only good things to come out of any sort of tent, an allegedly "big tent"--oooohhhh, wow! such a BIG tent!--would have been a circus. Or Dr. Love's Travelling Revival and Salvation Show.

The fast-fading Libs may indeed have their highly-touted tent. But there's not much to it. It's sorta like a little boys club up in the backyard tree.

Pn the other hand, the Conservatives represent CANADA, C2C2C. (That's Coast to Coast to Coast.) The only individuals that aren't part of the All-Canada Conservative movement, are the ones that CHOOSE not to be. This could be for various reasons, most likely based on fuzzy logic and/or some sort of pathological fear and/or hatred of anything to do with faith of any kind, or anything that might be construed or perceived as even remotely, somehow being labelled somewhat American.

My observation is that most of the libs that I know, the guys at least (libguys,) are rabid fans who follow and support some NFL team or another and consider Canadian Football beneath them.

Now -- you tell me who you really think has the Yank-envy complex.

l.h.&k!

Joanne (True Blue) said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Joanne (True Blue) said...

Wow! I really have hit a nerve! I've had to delete a few comments after having allowed them because the authors hosted blogs that definitely did not correspond with my personal values - and I mean bordering on porn.

Too bad too, because some of the concepts themselves were worth mentioning. I just don't want this blog being a link to graphic images of homosexual activities.

Is this where we're heading? If gay and lesbian sex is now condoned by society, am I being over-the-top by censoring blog authors who feel it is fine to portray soft porn of any persuasion? And I don't particulary want to view that crap myself as a censor. Maybe I'll have to keep comments restricted to people I am familiar with.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

For my readers that are able to exercise a little self-control:


Paul - Too funny!!! You are proof that Conservatives are capable of having a sense of humour.

Zac - There's room in our big tent for you too. You just have to watch your bathroom manners. ;>)

Roy, thanks for the support. I enjoy reading your blog, BTW.

RGM - lol! Paul Martin's fatal flaw was not appointing himself to the SCC.

Mary said...

Enjoyed your read Allison!

Chuckercanuck said...

hiding behind keyboards, its easy to let out nasty streaks out. in conversation, we'd all sound a lot more reasonable - except the NDP, they're crazy no matter what the medium. (that was a joke).

I think Allison is totally correct - there is much wider diversity of views within the Tories than the Liberals. We truly are building the biggest, welcomiest tent in Canada.

Alberta Girl said...

Joanne - your thoughtful reflection is bang on!. I am constantly amazed at some of the vile and spiteful comments made by those on the left that choose to visit so called "conservative" blogs. Yet when they are challenged for facts to back up their comments, or facts are presented to them, they go away and do not respond.

There are some - as you say - who do engage in meaningful debate - those are the ones to respect - after all democracy is just that - freedom to hold differing opinions. It is when there is no respect for opinions other than your own partisan views that democracy is devalued.

Your comment on "Canadian values" is also bang on - The Liberals and NDP'ers constantly talk about "what Canadians want", "values held by the majority of Canadians, or just "we uphold Canadian values", yet they never define what these "values" are so that Canadians can know whether or not they stand for our values.

Some reflective thinking - hopefully some will see themselves.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Alberta Girl - Thanks! Wow!! It's so nice to hear something positive for a change instead of being called a retard, bigot, fascist or Neocon.

Much appreciated. It helps to neutralize some of the poison arrows.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Chucker - Very deep thoughts. I agree with you; especially about the NDP. ;)

The thing about the Dippers is that they can say anything they want. They never have to put their money where there mouth is; they'll never get into power. If they did, God help us all!

RGM said...

I love being called a neo-con.

Thomas said...

"We truly are building the biggest, welcomiest tent in Canada."

Unless you are a person who is in love with another person of the same gender, and want to express that love by joining together in marriage under the eyes of the law. Then I suspect such a member of this big ol' friendly tent will be treated like Belinda.

Thomas @ thelongwalk.ca

Zac said...

The NDP can dump rhetoric about some utopian socialist paradise where every citizen is fed and taken care of. Budgets will magically balance themselves. Peace will be ushered into every land. And we can all sit in a big hippie circle passing around a bong saying how much we love one another.

The fact is that they can promise anything, they never have to cost anything. They can look Canadians in the eye and say "this is what I'll do" without ever saying, "this is how I will pay for it"

Plus, there hard to argue with because they always rely on, "well Jack Layton would have done this, and this, and this" but they have no record. Campaigning and governing are two different things.

Their foray's into provincial governments have mostly been unmitigated failures as well.

Hopefully since they've broken thier union ties, they can come back to reality.

Mac said...

Joanne, sometimes I trace back to bloggers whose comments interest me, whether I agree with them or not. That's how I came to your blog and several others which I read daily.

Occasionally, I've been shocked by the contents of the blogs which I read and I don't get shocked easily.

As to whether you should censor links from bloggers who don't share the same values as you do, that's a hard call and one you have to make.

Censorship is like prohibition; it starts out as a noble idea but it is always ineffective because it fails to address to cause of the conflict.

No-one will hold you responsible for the comments of those who post to your blog but everyone watches how you react to those posts.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Thomas, how do explain the Liberal M.P.'s who are against SSM?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Zac - This is the first time we have ever seen eye to eye.

kelly said...

I frequently check the blogs of people who post here and I thank you joanne for censoring the ones that are soft porn. I don't want to look at graphic images of anyone having sex - gay or straight.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

"No-one will hold you responsible for the comments of those who post to your blog but everyone watches how you react to those posts."

Thanks, Mac. There's something to chew on for a while...

vicki said...

joanne...I agree with mac's 'not responsible' comment.However...this is your 'blogsite'.You are not MSM. Therefore, IMHO you should be able to 'censor' when you feel the necessity. You have asked for reasonable dialogue,meaningful debate and it is possible without the insults and profanity.
Now when sara has to blow off steam...she at least keeps the wild stuff on her site!! lol!
zac is a good example of expressing the other point without resorting to empty namecalling('Empiracal' and 'class centrist' were simple labels as he tried to 'categorize' where I was 'coming from'....not profane at all.)
(Happy Mom's day joanne and mary)

Sara said...

mac,


try me I love to shock people, while CBC was here I asked the camera man if I could give the camera the finger and he looked at me and said "why?" boy was I shocked,, why wouldn't I?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

lol! You guys are great. Kelly, thanks. Yes, I should have made that clear. I am against any porn both gay or straight. And they called me a bigot - Ha! That'll show em.

Nice comments, Vicki. thanks. Happy Mothers' day to you too!

Yes, I am quite impressed with Zac's blog. Needless to say, I don't always agree with what he says, but he does put a lot of thought and effort into it. It is a classy site. My only issue with Zac is some of the company he keeps...

Sara, no one can ever accuse you of not being up front and saying what you think. That's what I like about you.

Steph said...

I feel bad for you that you have to be on the receiving end of those childish personal attacks. Hopefully that doesn't discourage you from continuing to contribute to the edification and enlightening of society because you do that well.

Chuckercanuck said...

Dear Thomas,

With respect, you boldfaced my comment.

I have been on record stating in blogolia and in the National Post, that I support SSM versus the status-quo, even though my preference ultimately would be to scrap "marriage" as a legal word altogether.

I don't feel uncomfortable for a second in the Tory party. What the Tories did to Belinda? What exactly did they do to her? I believe in that particular transaction, the Tories were being done to.

PR said...

Are you new to blogging? I'm not asking to be condecending, but rather because you seem shocked by the process of getting flamed.

Blogging is fun, but it's low politics. About as low as you can get. Joining a constituency association is deeply rewarding. But then sometimes you just want to blow off some steam. And that's where blogging comes in.

Mac said...

Sara, that reminds me of my single days. A girlfriend of mine always managed to flip 'the bird' whenever there was a camera. She was subtle enough about it, most folks didn't notice... but I did. She was a redhead who lived up to the reputation of redheads but she was fun. My mother lived in fear of me marrying that one.

Joanne, I'm an administrator on a Corvette-related website which has several forums, including one called "the Edge" for politics, controversial subjects and other spirited discussions. One of my tasks is moderating "the Edge" and I can tell you- it's like trying to herd cats. One of our strict rules is no porn and no links to sites which contain porn. There is a very practical reason for this since many of our members access the website from their workplaces.

There are always those who will test the limits but it's not hard to enforce rules as long as you are clear in your expectations.

If you don't want links to blogs which contain porn, you should post something to that effect on the home page of your blog.

Candace said...

joanne, FWIW I only ever delete comments without worrying too much about someone's personal site, unless it's truly "out there" somewhere. I try to keep it clean on my site, and have noticed that readers/commenters respect that but seem to be rather schizophrenic in commenting nature when I run across them on other sites. Interesting.

It's your site, do what works for you.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Peter - "Are you new to blogging?" I had a peek at your site. Doesn't look like you've been exactly prolific (no slight intended).

However, I am indeed a member of a political party (guess which one?).

Blogs are a great way to vent. However, as so many have noted, it's like a house party, and if you don't like how a particular guest is acting you can throw them out. My house, my rules.

Mac - I respect your comments and opinion. (and you can leave a link to your site if you like). I think if I made a statement regarding no porn in some conspicuous area on my blog, that would just be an invitation for that type of thing.

Chuckercanuck said...

candace,

propaganda machines are incapable of not using every opportunity to spread propaganda. one must set one's propaganda to the specific audience for maximum benefit. by respecting the rules/nature of a blog, a propaganda machine earns the quickest acceptance from the audience.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Another deep and irrefutable truth from Chuckercanuk. Awesome.

PR said...

Peter - "Are you new to blogging?" I had a peek at your site. Doesn't look like you've been exactly prolific (no slight intended).

Sigh. Which is why I appended the "condecending" disclaimer. Oh well. Talking to my computer always has sucked. Later.

PR said...

By the way, "prolific" has dual meanings. Which did you mean?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Peter, I was just kidding. Sorry if I offended you. You sound like you have a lot to say. I'd like to see you post some of your ideas on your blog.

Dual meanings? I mean in the sense of being productive; producing lots of material. Or, did you think I meant pro-life?

Thomas said...

"Thomas, how do explain the Liberal M.P.'s who are against SSM?"

I don't appreciate their involvement in the Liberal party.

Thomas @ thelongwalk.ca

Chuckercanuck said...

thomas,

my MP, Liberal Francis Scarpallegia was one of 34 MPs who voted against SSM.

Some neighbours of mine cited this as the main reason they wanted to vote Liberal. The Tory in my riding was pro SSM (not breaking out champagne bottles, but...).

Anyway - given that he voted against SSM and would continue that - would you recommend that he cross the floor and sit as a Conservative?

I think it would be a very popular move in my riding and good for national unity. What do you think?

Mac said...

Good point, Joanne. Human nature being what it is, some would find such a notice irresistible.

Unless you're 'into' Corvettes, I'm not sure you'd find much of interest at www.corvetteactioncenter.com but you're welcome to drop by. The forums link is close to the top of the homepage. The website's owner made "The Edge" available to members only to prevent casual viewers from stumbling into heated discussions about hot button issues like abortion, SSM, war in Iraq, etc.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

CC - How ironic!

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Nice looking site, Mac. Lots going on. I know someone who is into Corvettes bigtime. I'll pass on the link.

Mac said...

Yeah, I love my toy (a bright yellow 1973 coupe, 300 HP, 4 speed) and it's nice to have an online resource for restoration tips. The problem with the classics is you have to keep fixing 'em to drive 'em.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

I let my husband's cousin know about your site. He into rebuilding old Vettes too. I think he's going to check it out.