Tuesday, July 04, 2006

THIS McGuinty Doesn't Mince Words!

From today's National Post - "Police seek 'despicable' men who urinated on war monument."

The outrage continues over the photographs of several young men caught relieving themselves on the National War Memorial on Canada Day.

The most vocal so far is Ottawa South M.P. David McGuinty, brother of Ontario Premier Dalton:

David McGuinty, the MP for Ottawa South, did not mince words on the appropriate punishment for those caught urinating, whom he called "the worst of the worst that society has to offer."

"You want to grab them by the hair or by the ears and walk them through the War Museum, to understand just how despicable and disrespectful that kind of conduct is," he said, adding, "You cannot attribute this to drunkenness."

Then he talks about taking action:

Mr. McGuinty also vowed to take up the cause of protecting the monument, saying he wanted to bring together military agencies, the chief of police, the NCC and others to find a solution.

See, Dalton? Learn from your brother. This is how a leader conducts himself. He acknowledges a problem, and then he deals with it. He doesn't hide under the covers or send an ex-M.P. to handle it in order to keep his own hands clean.

Ah, if only they had switched paths when they first started their careers...

* * * * *

Update: Check out RGM for more on this story.

WEDNESDAY UPDATE: The Phantom Observer suggests the David McGuinty's actions smack of "political opportunism". Interesting POV.

IMPORTANT UPDATE: Police seek Montreal Man in Ottawa urnination scandal. Also looks like David McGuinty is actually taking some action. Kudos to him. (H/T Nealenews)

Also - Two Ottawa youths identified (H/T Canadian Christian Conservative).


Anonymous said...

We should wait and see if he actually accomplishes something. Strong words on an issue that everybody already agrees on doesn't impress me.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Good point, anonymous. Words don't necessarily lead to actions, that's for sure. At least he's taking a stand though, instead of being wishy-washy about it.

RGM said...

Quit copying me! I posted about this too! LOL

After reading the story I fired off an email to the Legion official that they quoted to see if there was anything that could be done to advance their cause of getting somebody to guard the Memorial so that repugnant acts such as this are not repeated.

Heck, make it one of those $1-a-year jobs and I'll do it proudly for a few hours a day.

Mac said...

The Liberal way usually involves strong words and little else... except perhaps to find a way to spend taxpayer's money on something useless or perhaps to draft some ill-conceived legislation. Maybe McSquinty II will attempt to prohibit urinating on public monuments or something similar.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Richard, this is getting scary. I did beat you by 4 minutes though.

Mac, I'm tying to reward any behaviour that inches in the right direction. Baby steps... Just like when Stephane Dion admitted that Canada's Kyoto targets are unattainable.

Honesty from a Liberal! Who knew?

Anonymous said...

Most Canadians couldn't care less about our war dead and especially new Canadians because they're deliberately not told about Canadian history.

RGM said...

Is your site clock on Eastern time? Because I'm running on Atlantic, which means that I beat you by 56 minutes. :p

That said, the more people that are aware of this outrage the better.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

especially new Canadians because they're deliberately not told about Canadian history. Is that true? Are new Canadians not taught Canadian history? I can't agree at all about Most Canadians couldn't care less about our war dead.

Boy I wish there weren't so many "anyonymous" comments here. It's confusing. Call yourselves Anonymous A, Anonymous B, etc.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

which means that I beat you by 56 minutes.

Dang! I thought I had scooped this story, but of course I was just checking the Blogging Tories aggregator.

You had a head start on me though, cause of the time difference! So that's not fair. ;)

Sara said...

oh man, is it the end of the world cause a kid went for a pee on the statue. I don't get what the big deal is,, yes it was stupid, yes it is for our war heroes that I get. I really don't think a kid going pee on it made them turn over in their graves, isn't that what they fought for was FREEDOM... someone should deal with the kid properly not running around Nationally trying to hang the kid!

Joan Tintor said...

David's slope-shouldered brother didn't mince words either when he made 200-plus election promises in 2003. Since then he's racked up 50-plus broken promises.

Matt said...

For the love of God please don't say David McGuinty has any sort of leadership qualities. He's my MP and I've been trying to get rid of him since the day he was first elected

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Sara - I think that the Vets feel disrespected, and I don't blame them.

Joan - Good point. I guess I was thinking about Caledonia. Not a whole lot of action on that file other than buying off the developer.

Matt - lol! Well, I wonder which McGuinty would make a worse premier? What if they switched places?

Thomas said...

Didn't those people die to protect our freedoms, so we can not live in a society where monuments are protected by the military?

"Those who seek to replace liberty with security deserve neither."

Thomas @ thelongwalk.ca

Mac said...

Sara, it's not the physical act which is so repulsive; it is the disrespect.

RGM said...

Wouldn't necessarily have to be a military man, thomas, you could get a rent-a-cop security guard to do it. And they didn't sacrifice their lives so that ignorant succeeding generations could piss on their memory.

Red Tory said...

The Liberal way usually involves strong words and little else...

Man, if you can find a way to politicize an issue you will. Oooooo... those evil, useless liberals with their strong words and squishy ways!!!

What do you recommend Mac? Death by firing squad? A good public flogging, perhaps?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

"Those who seek to replace liberty with security deserve neither."

And that would include anti-terrorism measures too, I suppose?

Sara said...

I know it was disrespect but listening to Lowell Green this morning he's acting like the world just ended, those kids must be terrified to come forward. I would be and yah I was that stupid to do something like that too, you do dumn things when your drunk.

They should be forced to clean it top to bottom then spend time volunteering at the Legions for 6 months for punishment, that I agree

but Lowell is screaming LITTLE PUNKS JUST DON"T CARE, but they do they just got stupid for a bit and they will learn their lesson. I'd rather that happen and we educate them than nothing at all because if nothing was done and no one knew to be educated on it how else do we learn..

if that made any sense your brain is as mushy as mine today.. too much sun

Zac said...

Joanne, I must agree with RT and admit that I'm amazed at your ability to spin this and imply that it is somehow a Liberal folly.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Zac, can use please show me where I spun this to be a Liberal folly?

Zac said...

Well, you used this story as an opportunity to bash your arch-nemisis Dalton McGuinty. Perhaps it might have been appropriate to say "look what this kid did, what a punk" as opposed to taking a cheap shot. But, hey..once again, your perogative. Have at it.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Zac, I said I admired David M. for stepping up to the plate and telling it like it is. I'll be even more impressed if he actually does something afterwards about it. I expressed some regret that his brother doesn't seem to have the same level of political acumen.

And still I get it from my friends on the right from being too nice to David, and from the left for taking a "cheap shot". Can't win!

Zac said...

Joanne, dozens of other politicians chimed in about this one, you could have picked many others. Some had stronger words than McGuinty.

Even the title spells out your original intentions of this post, "THIS McGuinty Doesn't Mince Words."

Perhaps I'm just nit-picking or reverting into my inner prick-ish self here, but it looks like you had ulterior motives here.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

it looks like you had ulterior motives here.

Ah, my agenda was that thinly veiled, was it?

Red Tory said...

Ah, my agenda was that thinly veiled, was it?

Considering you appear to be veiling it in Saran Wrap®... um, yeah.

p.s. My volley was actually directed at Mac, not you, but the same applies. On another blog he tried to conflate WWI with Liberal perfidy. Curse those Liberals!

Zac said...

fAh, my agenda was that thinly veiled, was it?

Obviously not, but I don't see the point of politicizing a story like this. That's all.

Your place, your rules. Just making a point here.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

O.K. Zac, I see your point. See, I'm not unreasonable.

Zac said...

Never said you were, in fact I find you quite reasonable. Plus, I do find myself taking "cheap shots" from time to time, so perhaps I'm not the right person to be lobbing over criticism today.

It's all good.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Thanks, Zac. Well I had intended it as a bit of a humourous poke at Dalton, but you're right. This isn't the issue to play politics with. And besides, I'm sick, so I'm not putting up much of a fight today...

liberal supporter said...

Maybe I'm just some liberal fool, but I don't see this as something worthy of national headlines. Must be a slow news day.

When I heard the story, why I certainly had my dung-hampers in a knot. The disrespect! Peeing all over the War Memorial! I imagined the entire monument sprayed and the offender standing on the very top, peeing on the statue soldiers below during a solemn ceremony honouring the war dead.

Then I saw the picture in the Sun. He was standng at the bottom of the stairs at the base, using what was probably the nearest wall he could find, looking back at the camera like an idiot.

I know that if my dad (navy) or my grndfather (army) was alive, they would chuckle at this, though if asked in public they would be properly harrumphing with a wink. But they would laugh out loud at all the strutting and tut tutting civvies. I mean, just last month we jailed people who wanted to blow up the national monuments. This is just a sideshow.

So of course the drunken idiot should be given some sort of punishment, the kind that makes it clear we're not all mortified or anything, just that he was being a nuisance. The old dig a hole, and put the dirt in another hole 10 feet away comes to mind. Maybe he should be the one required to stand guard at the memorial for a few days, days which only count when he doesn't pee on it. On his bathroom breaks he could clean the public washrooms wherever they are near the memorial.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

L.S. - That's great! I just heard something similar on a Toronto call-in show: Have them clean the washrooms at the Legion halls. And I'll bet they'd make sure there was lots of work to do!

Sara said...


that is what I was trying to say earlier,,, ok it was bad and mean but to make that big of a deal about it is just stupid. You go after media for their idiotness (yah I made up the word) and they keep proving you right. NATIONAL NEWS MAN PEE"S ON MONUMENT???

What's wrong with that pic,,, yes punish the little twits but to crucify them nationally for it seems a bit much...

Mac said...

Sorry for the confusion, Zac and Joanne. Red Tory was pointing his finger at me, not Joanne. You know what they say about folks who point fingers, right?

Allow me explain. RT expressed some rather strong, negative opinions about WWI & WWII, especially concerning the motivation of our troops. Were our troops fighting for freedom? Not according to RT!

I rather sarcastically replied to the effect that it didn't matter whether they fought for freedom or not since the Fed-Libs spent decades whittling away our freedoms and replaced them with political correctness then I drew a comparison with Orwell's "1984" which struck a nerve for some reason. Hmmmm.

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that RT who so often engages in defending/minimizing/deflecting criticism of Fed-Libs and generously gifting his smug sarcasm about all things Conservative, yet his panties are in a bunch about my comments?

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Mac - Thanks for clearing that up. Where did this discussion go on BTW? Sounds fascinating. I tend to agree with you, Mac.

In the Post today, there is a letter suggesting that we should check very carefully with the courts. This may be a Charter right (urinating in public).

I believe the mantra is "I am free to do anything with my body that I want" (abortion, sex of any kind, etc.)

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Sara, I think this thing has been blown out of proportion too.

The vet that took the pics was waiting for this to happen. He had seen it many times before on Canada Day, and I guess he had had enough. So he was ready with his camera, when the event occurred.

For sure there should be some kind of guard around the monument if it is sacred ground.

Can you imagine if it had been a mosque or something?

liberal supporter said...

As long as you don't aim your urine so that it forms an image that depicts any religious figure, they won't kill you for peeing on the wall outside the mosque.

Really it was a "dog bites man" story.

It only has to be criminal enough to discourage others, and to protect the photographer from being sued for invasion of privacy.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

to protect the photographer from being sued for invasion of privacy.

L.s. - I was thinking about that too! I am waiting for the justice system to nail the photographer and give the offenders a slap on the wrists. Hope it doesn't happen, but it wouldn't surprise me.

TangoJuliette said...

I am a sixty-two year old veteran. Here are a few of my thoughts on these rude wee-minded sons of scum.

This monument is also a gravesite to Canada's Unknown Soldier. It is also the repository of the memories of all the young men and women who died in combat. They were 17, and 18 years old -- they were 33, and everything in between, and beyond. They died all fierce and fearsome manners of horrible deaths, far from home, on foreign soil, with no compassionate mother, wife, sister, admiring and loving kid brother to wipe away the blood and mud and entrails from their eyes.

1.) Electrify the ground around the monument.
2.) Electrify the monument.
3.) Let the weenie boys', while taking their disrespectful and insubordinate leaks, complete the circuit, and get electrically stunned.

When they awake,I'd like them to be coming 'round, inside a locked room; just them and an equal number of my fellow vets-- but please, count me in too. Please! Ten minutes. No holds barred.

They'd become the most respectful kids on the planet after that transformational 600 seconds.

I shall glagly pin this tail on the donkey of liberal folly: I truly believe that some of the blame here must go to a past Prime Minister and some Ministers of the Crown. These would be the national leaders who couldn't have cared less for the finer nuanced distinctions between Normandy and Norway, Dieppe and Denmark, Vimy and Vichy.

Dead fish rot from the head down. Et voila! Rotten young hooligan-citizens.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Yeah, but Tango, how do you really feel? Don't hold back now. ;)

Zac said...

Ahhh, there's no justice, like angry mob justice.

liberal supporter said...

tj, despite the fact that these kids are idiots, and certainly should be put on latrine duty for a few weeks, if one of them was my kid, after your "ten minutes", I would track you down and kill you.

No, you wouldn't be given a chance "in a locked room", you wouldn't even get a chance to call me a coward for giving you no chance, you would simply be turned off like a switch.

If my father and grandfather were alive, they would do the same.

Just to be clear, since this is a hypothetical situation, no threat of violence to you has actually been made.

I saw a letter in today's Sun in which the writer's "solution" involved 15 minutes in a locked room with a bunch of vets. I wonder why he needs the extra time? Another wanted to send them to Afghanistan so they could pee in their pants instead of on monuments.

I also saw a blog where it was asked "why was a vet taking pictures of a young man with his dick out in the first place?"

Your "solution" might produce a lot of lip service to you at the time, and provide personal satisfaction, but it would not earn any respect for our military and war dead.

I see in that kid a potential recruit. After a month of sundays cleaning toilets and guarding the monument he might have met some miltary people and seen what it's about. If he joined and "kept his nose clean", he would be noticed and probably move up. He'd never really live this incident down, but this kind of cavalier disregard for lesser rules is valued. Once inside, disrespecting the war dead is a much bigger rule, and he would probably be the biggest enforcer of it.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Oh boy. Now the fireworks begin!!

Keep it clean please. No blood or other bodily fluids. Thanks.

Red Tory said...

I think my solution is best. 60 hrs. of community service working with vets plus a hefty monetary fine.

Zac said...

60 hrs. of community service working with vets plus a hefty monetary fine.

That's honestly what they will probably get. I have a sinking suspicion if they didn't make the front page the paper, they would have gotten a slap on the wrist.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

I have a sinking suspicion if they didn't make the front page the paper, they would have gotten a slap on the wrist.

Yep. I am agreeing with you again, Zac. Twice in one day!! Now that is scary!

Sara said...

I also saw a blog where it was asked "why was a vet taking pictures of a young man with his dick out in the first place?"


aww come on guys that was a funny!

Candace said...

I'm curious how those saying "it's not that big a deal" would feel if these guys were peeing on the graves of your family? This is an actual gravesite. I don't CARE if he just peed on the stairs. How about he goes & pees on the path in front of the grave of someone you care about?

Sorry, but part of my Canada Day was spent planting Canadian flags by the headstones of my grandparents & other relatives (no, I don't do this every year, the opportunity presented itself so I took it). Peeing on their graves didn't even vaguely cross my mind. I'd even had a beer or two.

WTF have we come to that people think this was either a non-story ("slow news day") or has been blown out of proportion? Yeah, maybe it's gotten bigger than one would expect, but why is that a bad thing? Guards or no guards, does anyone think drunk teens (or young adults) will consider it a good idea next year?

Mac said...

I believe the mantra is "I am free to do anything with my body that I want" (abortion, sex of any kind, etc.)

Although it's a bit too long to chant, I think the statement should read like this:

"I am free to do anything with my body that I want so long as I don't interfere with the freedom of others and I accept responsibility for my actions."

TangoJuliette, I hear you but violence begats violence. Justice is a dish which must be served cold.

Community service might be appropriate but that would depend on the duty.

In a way, there's a bit of ironic justice about them having their faces displayed in the media and the blogosphere and the fact that it has provoked spirited discussion is a good thing in my book!!

Sara said...

Jeez people,

Canada day is on Parliament Hill and nothing is open. Not enough bathrooms for a few hundred thousand people. Can we pee on the streets? No we have RCMP all over the place. The location of the statue is open but where he pee'd on it was covered that is why they went there. They were blocked from the crowd, look at the pictures and see the walls on both sides.... it was a terrorist attack for god sakes!!! GET OVER IT

And yes, my family is full of Vets too but I don't see them screaming the world is going to end because a statue got pee'd on!

TangoJuliette said...

Dear "Liberal Supporter":

First off: is that something like a "GritJock"?

Second Off: Please don't try to make your problem my problem. If you've got isues with anger management deal with them. Don't try transferring...

If you stopped jumping to conclussions about my "ten minutes" with the pishers (that's actually a bona fide Yiddish word) as opposed to someone elses fifteen minutes, you might just want to consider that perhaps the vets and I might be nothing more than very fast talkers and extremely persuasive when it comes to motivating young people.

That'd just be ten minutes out of the lives of perhaps six people, and yes, the lads might probably make it as recruits for the military, if they passed the screening programs and psychological testing programs. Then they'd probably have to put up with a whole lot of veterans, all about forty years younger than myself, and probaly posessing a lot less patience.

As for what you perceived to be their possible pseudo-saving grace, their "cavalier disregard for lesser rules," would be the primary reason for their undoing in Boot Camp, absent their re-jigging of this attitude.

This is precisely the very sort of "spit & polish" military Chicken-Shit "lesser rules" [Catch 22, Section 118(QR)Army,] that for milleniae, in most armies of the world, has accounted for a inflexible and unbending understanding of the rules of "Chain of Command," saving countless lives, winning many battles.

This petty BS is probably the strongest teaching instrument in any military force.

There is much here to mull over and debate, but that's undoubtedly better done face to face. But I do have one question or two.

You take it upon yourself to speak for your Father and Grandfather, lumping them both into the same homicide-threatening angry rage that apparently consumes you -- a consumption sparked by not one whit of evidence in fact. Sort of a case of consumption by assumption. And we all know that thing about assumptions. They tend to make an "ass" out of "u". If these kids were your son, and/or my son, how would you, your Dad and Grand-Dad truly respond?

You really think that my reaction is geared to seeking my fifteen minutes of fame in some limelight? Then you don't know much about the Canada I was taught to respect, and you certainly don't appear to have the slightest grasp of all the stirring and powerful institutions of this great land.
You really think that your coming on sounding like some movie version of a Grit-Goombah Button Man is going to give this "switch" the shivers? Then you don't know much about the Canada I was born into, climbed out of and continue to contribute to.

But you certainly sound like many liberal supporter I know: Jump to unsubstantiatd, half-baked conclussions; breathe fire and smoke; spout fire and brimstone; utter deaath-threats and announcements of impending doom; and just keep on trying to keep the old "rob from the people and give to the rich friends" machine siphoning off that hard-earned cash.

Is that the new Liberal hidden agenda? "turn off" (wipe out, off)all the (real or imagined or trumped-up) dissenting voices? So you must believe in the death sentence after all. Are you sure you're not some sort of neo-con stooge dressed up in red clothing?

By the way, nice touch there, at the end, that "disclaimer bit.":

"...Just to be clear, since this is a hypothetical situation, no threat of violence to you has actually been made..."

LS, just to be clear here, it sure looks like ( uttered ) threats to me.

"...liberal supporter said... tj, despite the fact that these kids are idiots, and certainly should be put on latrine duty for a few weeks, if one of them was my kid, after your "ten minutes", I would track you down and kill you..."


Welcome to the New Canada and The New Liberal Party of Canada. There Are No Victims, Only Approved Enemies of The Party-State.

Oh yeah! I can really feel the inclusive love, baby.

Love, Hogs & Kisses,


Joanne (True Blue) said...

Justice is a dish which must be served cold.

Another gem from Mac.

I think Tango is coming from a Vet's perspective - Kill or be killed. Anger can be a very useful and life-saving emotion in war. However, although the event was a disgrace and hurtful to the vets, I think we all need to calm down a bit. JMHO.

TangoJuliette said...


It's "revenge" or "vengeance" not "justice", whic is the dish best served cold.

"Justice" is only bling(folded), not stupid, not angry.

Far, far too many scribes and posters showing some really deep-seated anger and violence issues in response to my 'ten minute' thing.

Where are those open minds, free of pre-emptive judgement?

L. H & K.

TangoJuliette said...

The other thing lacking in this discourse is the absolute disregard for the differences between the the Sacred and the Profane, as well as a healthy understanding regarding the disposition of our dead -- civilian, military, mystic.

No, this is not primarily a "Christian" rant. Think of some person urinating on the pillars of Druidic Stonehenge, on Incan and Mayan and Zoroastrian Pyramids.


The same should apply to the Grave of the Unknown Soldier.

I have recently read that "democracy gives one the 'Right' to do anything, even defecate on a tombstone."


Democracy also has implied requirements of resposibility and accountabilty, for the actions one chooses to, or chooses not to, initiate.

I can do anything I want to do in a democracy. I also should like to think that I would not do that which is offensive to, nor disrespectful of, the many cherished institutions and traditions of our democratic way of life, and of those who are blessed enough to live in it.

TangoJuliette said...

A couple of final thoughts from this neck of the woods. Have to go up to Ottawa to join the neo-con right wing lynch-mob you-all seem to think I;m part of. K-k-k-kid-DING!!

Shall be away from this post for a b it of wee hours.

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms is Truly Written with the blod of the Unknow Soldier, and countless thousands men, women and almost-children, like him. It is not written in the drunken pissing away of some adolescent and callow youth not quite ready for the real world.

Soldiers, from the dudes rolling dice at the foot of the Easter cross, to the kids throwing themselves on grenades to safe the lives of their comrades in arms, have probably all gone a jar or two, too far, in their green days of youth.

In almost every case, however, I would warrant that anyone of us "drunklen sojer-boys" would still, regardless of how booze-addled and stupefied, we might have been, would have preferred to have chosen some form of self-destruction rather than knowingly desecrate someone's clearly marked and designated sacred space, place or grounds.

liberal supporter said...

Dear Tango Juliette:

Very well said, and I agree with you.

I won't ask you if you were actually intending to be violent with these kids for 10 minutes, though the electrocution preliminaries gave me ample reason to assume the worst was possible. I also allowed my response to be over the top, as yours appeared to be, to illustrate "violence begets violence".

In reality, if your persuasion of these kids was as you now say it would be, then my father and grandfathter would probably help you. As would I. We're not fast talkers, so it would take more than 10 minutes...

TangoJuliette said...

The electric thing is more of a Fearless Fosdick/Buck Rogers fantasy 'phaser-type' of stun gun. Probably more shock to one's family jewels than one would care to label 'enjoyable.'

I thimnkl that the fast talking might reguire a little more time. Strokes tend to slow down one's ability to toss off glib patter.

I do seriously believe that the society of ours is losing touch with some of those institutions of the past which lent a framework of solidity to our lives.

Two key areas would be how we handle the 'sacred' and the 'profane', or the natural and the supernatural (or myststical, mysterious.)

The other is how we as a society approach the questions relating to how we dispose of, and how we honour, or don't, our deceased; be they humans, pets, beasts of burden, glue-pots who couldn't win the trifecta for us, or how we consider our deceased 'Deities.'

Deities of any persuasion. Again, dead pets, as well as Mayan, Incan, Druid, Zoroastrian, etc. etc.v gods, godesses and so on.

Desecration is desecratiom. intentional or not, drunk or sober, the Flip Wilson plea of 'The Devil Made Me Do It!' or whatever.

In any event, these 'leaks' will certainly be remembered for a long time. Probably be buzzing around in their memory baks until the get old enough to come down with enlarged prostates and the ever shrinking T.B. (tiny bladder) and the costs of Depends will be prohibitive and not covered by the National Urological Society Health Insurance Plan (Male Division.)

I think we could have worked something out with the lads. If I couldn't, then you and your mini-legion branch sound level-headed enough to be more than up to the job.

Candace said...

Sara: "The location of the statue is open but where he pee'd on it was covered that is why they went there."

It's not just a statue. It's a GRAVE. You're still okay with that? You can get pretty upset about abortions & dead almost-babies, but it's okay to pee on the grave of a soldier?

That's pretty weird.

TangoJuliette said...

I'm with candace in her thoughts.

Sara: Imagine one of your offspring in the cemetary. Or your favourite pet buried where pets are buried.

How close to their grave could the prince of pee's get, before you starting to feel offended over the encroachment of what might be your 'sacred' place?

Woyld you stop him at the cemetary gate? Would you let him get to the section whee your loved one is buried? How about if he started peeing at the end of the row wherein lie the remains of your loved one? Or would you let him walk the length og the row, peeing on all the graves in that row?

They drank under age. That's law one broken.

Public unrination. Law two. But that only gets used to harass the homeless folks in our midst.

How about indignities to the deceased? Or is that a stretch?

What if these kids were young lads of a slightly daker skin hue?

What if we knew that the Unknown Soldier had been gay, or Jewish, or left-handed, or black? Would the actions of the bladder-boys come under hate-law legislation?

Long time since I was posted to Ottawa, but I think I recall that the Parliament buildings, NAC, Rideau Canal and many bushes and treesare also just a short distance from the monument.

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Tango, it was an inexcusable insult to all Vets for sure.

Anonymous said...

Did you just equate peeing on a grave to abortion?


Candace said...

no, anon, I did not "equate peeing on a grave to abortion" - I asked where the line is drawn.

I am pro-choice BUT I believe that choice should be limited, reasonably, at 3-4 months. You may or may not agree. I, frankly, don't care.

But to get your snot in a knot over one kind of disrespect and not about another is, in my mind, at least, a disconnect. I'm trying to figure out where the line (in general terms) is drawn. i.e. the difference between NOT being okay with a fetus being tossed in the trash in a green garbage bag vs. being okay with a vet's grave being pissed on. Pretty straightforward IMHO.

And YOU, anonymous, need to realize that YOUR personal lines may not match those of others, even when in general terms you might agree. Radical concept, but I'm sure you are up to it.

Anonymous said...

I just wanted to make sure I read your comment correctly. I think I did.

I was suprised to see abortion brought into the discussion at all and still cannot fathom why it would be relevant.


Joanne (True Blue) said...

I'm having trouble understanding the flow of logic myself with this one, so I will refrain from commenting any further.

Candace said...

Hmm, I guess that was a bit of a leap, so let me try to explain.

I tend to see pro-life supporters as conservative thinkers.

Conservative thinkers, in my experience, get bugged about shows of disrespect to a variety of things, including the military.

Ergo, I was surprised that a pro-life supporter (one I assumed to be a conservative thinker in general) was not overly concerned about a show of disrespect to our dead soldiers.

Obviously, there are a whole bunch of assumptions in that leap of logic, and I appear to have made an a$$ out of at least me.