tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post2423603760988417787..comments2023-10-19T06:24:41.808-04:00Comments on Joanne's Journey: Moderate Muslim voices speak out - UpdatedJoanne (True Blue)http://www.blogger.com/profile/17445664997050698154noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-86126342969216082872008-01-05T16:14:00.000-05:002008-01-05T16:14:00.000-05:00True moderate Muslims reject Islamic supremacy and...<I>True moderate Muslims reject Islamic supremacy and Sharia; embrace religious equality and democracy.</I><BR/><BR/>This is a very insightful comment. Thanks so much.<BR/><BR/>Next time I post on this topic I hope to refer to it.Joanne (True Blue)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17445664997050698154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-43512943235042346262007-12-14T22:45:00.000-05:002007-12-14T22:45:00.000-05:00What language is the koran written in, has it ever...<I>What language is the koran written in, has it ever been translated into another language. Every time I see something supposedly written in it, all I see are a bunch of scribbles.</I><BR/><BR/>The Koran is written in Arabic. The Arabic language does look like "scribbles" at first, though you can see patterns, just as you might in Hebrew, Chinese or Hindi.<BR/><BR/>In computers, Arabic is difficult to render because it is a script kind of writing. The letters run together as they do in handwritten English, only more so. In some styles of English, you see certain letter combinations rendered differently in certain situations, such as AE or OE. Arabic does this as well, but more so, I think.<BR/><BR/>You can find an English translation (searchable too!) <A HREF="http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/" REL="nofollow">here</A><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><I>So, have all these people read it or just looked at the lines and been told what it says.</I><BR/><BR/>Many Christians "look at the lines" and then are told what it says. Or more importantly, what it means. Some denominations/sects think you should read the Bible in the original languages (ancient Hebrew for the Old Testament), otherwise you will not understand it as well.<BR/><BR/>I have read about certain parts, such as the Leviticus chapters with all manner of social rules, and even the translators do not all agree. This came up in a "God hates fags" discussion; the "man shall not lie with man as with a woman", in some translations, clearly refers to man not lying with man <I>in a woman's bed</I>.<BR/><BR/>I think anyone with a Christian faith should encourage the use of reason. We have these apparently barbaric passages in our Scriptures, and only our most fanatical fundamentalists actually take each and every one of them, in whatever translation they use, as absolute.<BR/><BR/>We need to give Muslims the same benefit of the doubt, and treat the individual fanatics as what they are. We must not allow the fanatics to rule. We must not allow the fanatics to hide behind and pervert the faith that many others follow.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-54006657173923947092007-12-14T18:23:00.000-05:002007-12-14T18:23:00.000-05:00The brother is out on bail and had to surrender hi...The brother is out on bail and had to surrender his passport.maryThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10099534478709227356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-54275647391876890342007-12-14T18:21:00.000-05:002007-12-14T18:21:00.000-05:00What language is the koran written in, has it ever...What language is the koran written in, has it ever been translated into another language. Every time I see something supposedly written in it, all I see are a bunch of scribbles. So, have all these people read it or just looked at the lines and been told what it says. <BR/>Reminds me of years ago when I changed high schools. Other student's couldn't figure out how I got every word of a lecture etc. Teacher accused me of doodling on my paper. It was Pittman Shorthand.<BR/>I knew what it said, but no one else did. It had been taught in my previous school.maryThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10099534478709227356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-42820366023016483172007-12-13T14:29:00.000-05:002007-12-13T14:29:00.000-05:00Anonymous said..."So - United Muslim Women of Cana...Anonymous said..."So - United Muslim Women of Canada's Anisa Ali said the public shouldn't assume that honour killings only happen in the Muslim community...Really? Name one, just one."<BR/><BR/>You asked for just one, but I hope you don't mind if I give you more.<BR/><BR/>The Kurds. They are not muslim (in fact one of their main reasons for honor killings is because the girl was with a muslim or converting to muslim - men too, but mostly women) and it can be fairly certain that they have a much higher percentage of honor killing than any group. Honor killing is very widespread among the kurds - estimates are 1 a day - and these are sometimes mob events with hundreds of people attending or participating.<BR/><BR/>Sihk's is another not too uncommon example.<BR/><BR/>Honor killing was also legal in a couple Christian countries until just recently: Brazil, Haiti and Columbia. There are also stories about honor killing being part of the sicilian culture in the 20th century.<BR/><BR/>So the fault of honor killing can't be specifically attached to the muslim religion. However, when an honor killing occurs for what appears may be for religious reasons then the muslim churches MUST come out strongly against it. When so few do it creates a situation where honor killings are accepted as religious practice in some parts of the world.<BR/><BR/>Again, I can not blame honor killing on the Koran (I have read it, and although I am very critical of it I don't specifically remember any references to honor killing or the like), but until the muslim religious leaders make a stand against such dispicable acts, then they will continue and that implicates the religion of islam.wayward sonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00881662458488517364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-29065657503395590642007-12-13T13:20:00.000-05:002007-12-13T13:20:00.000-05:00So - United Muslim Women of Canada's Anisa Ali sai...So - United Muslim Women of Canada's Anisa Ali said the public shouldn't assume that honour killings only happen in the Muslim community...<BR/><BR/>Really? Name one, just one.<BR/><BR/>And as for so-called Christians murdering abortion providers: these are extremely rare - you certainly don't have 5,000 a year (the UN estimate of honour killings across the world). And people who condemn the murders of abortion providers do not get death threats from other Christians...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-65953511851542864582007-12-13T07:44:00.000-05:002007-12-13T07:44:00.000-05:00There is not a single shred of evidence that this ...There is not a single shred of evidence that this is an honour killing since there is no such thing as honour killing in the Qur'an or Sharia. So to suggest something that is not Islamic is irresponsible. Murder is murder, plain and simple. Islam doesn't make the distinction. Whatever the penalties are in Canada for murder, this person, if convicted, should receive it in the harshest measure.<BR/><BR/>http://13martyrs.blogspot.com/Rob Wagner's Scripthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11237156281884386908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-7679501759187656782007-12-13T07:32:00.000-05:002007-12-13T07:32:00.000-05:00read the koran. there no way out of this type of a...read the koran. there no way out of this type of action unless you dispose if that book. the hadiths etc are equally as vile. you folks who like to apply western standards to islam are fooling youselves. there is no such animal as a moderate muslim. you are an apostate if you are moderate and sooner or later someone from the rop will take care of you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-77514503096195183082007-12-13T01:00:00.000-05:002007-12-13T01:00:00.000-05:00Jason Bo Green..the crusades were conducted as a b...Jason Bo Green..the crusades were conducted as a backlash against Muslim expansionism into Europe, which would only be stopped by the defeat of the Islamists outside of the gates of Vienna.KURSKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00286593811913745188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-2279882071090126302007-12-12T22:26:00.000-05:002007-12-12T22:26:00.000-05:00When a religion is consistently used to justify un...<I>When a religion is consistently used to justify uncivil attitudes, actions and behaviors as Islam is seen to be..... then that religion plainly is the source of the incivility in it's adherents.</I><BR/><BR/>It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the courts.Joanne (True Blue)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17445664997050698154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-9489847835917198252007-12-12T22:24:00.000-05:002007-12-12T22:24:00.000-05:00OMMAG - Interesting about James Kopp. Thanks.Do we...OMMAG - Interesting about James Kopp. Thanks.<BR/><BR/>Do we know what religion this guy was? I think a person could be an abortionist murderer without belonging to any particular religion.<BR/><BR/>A true Christian would not kill anyone. Of course, many Muslims would say the same thing about their religion.Joanne (True Blue)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17445664997050698154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-70472440392465474482007-12-12T22:15:00.000-05:002007-12-12T22:15:00.000-05:00Murder of Doctors by Anti-Abortion fanatics..... s...Murder of Doctors by Anti-Abortion fanatics..... sounds familiar!<BR/>Just to be clear Joanne ... there was discussion about this on your blog I believe:<BR/><A HREF="http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2007/06/20/antiabortion_shooter_gets_life_plus_10/3932/" REL="nofollow"> James Kopp </A> attempted to assassinate 3 Canadian Doctors!<BR/><BR/>Dr. Jack Fainman was shot and wounded while sitting in his kitchen at his Winnipeg home in November 1997.<BR/><BR/>But to the POINT of the story from Mississauga .... the vast majority of Muslims DO NOT publicly condemn the actions of these barbarians who share their religious and cultural heritage. Tarak Fatah and others like him are RARE exceptions and while they should serve as positive examples to their bretheren it is a fact that they are widely criticized, belittled and threatened instead. If anything they serve as examples to other muslims about what to fear if they dare to step out of line.<BR/><BR/>As for all these efforts to make arguments in moral equivalence ... as always this is the first and last refuge of the ignorant and the weak.<BR/>When a religion is consistently used to justify uncivil attitudes, actions and behaviors as Islam is seen to be..... then that religion plainly is the source of the incivility in it's adherents.OMMAGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05475151103850378778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-51673495147539416662007-12-12T16:04:00.000-05:002007-12-12T16:04:00.000-05:00but no NDP ones. I guess I should find a good one ...<I>but no NDP ones. I guess I should find a good one or two to add into the mix.</I><BR/><BR/>If you find such a thing, let me know. ;)Joanne (True Blue)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17445664997050698154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-18241187209733875012007-12-12T15:58:00.000-05:002007-12-12T15:58:00.000-05:00Hope you're equally well, Joanne.Me, I find I read...Hope you're equally well, Joanne.<BR/><BR/>Me, I find I read a fairly equal number of BT and L sites - but no NDP ones. I guess I should find a good one or two to add into the mix.<BR/><BR/>Ignoring the problematic ones is the best solution, for sure.<BR/><BR/>And the Crusades - to me, it's ancient history. I don't judge Italians based on the actions of Caesars Augustus or Tiberius or etc.Jacques Beau Verthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16450947780950412676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-40239198740865716462007-12-12T15:52:00.000-05:002007-12-12T15:52:00.000-05:00I believe that if a girl was killed by a Catholic ...<I>I believe that if a girl was killed by a Catholic family for having an abortion, there would be an equally shocked and strong reaction.</I><BR/><BR/>That would be an interesting case. The ultimate irony.<BR/><BR/>I think you'd be hard-pressed to find such an example.<BR/><BR/>I hear many arguments about the Crusades, as you say. And then there's the abortionist killers, which I haven't heard of happening in Canada...<BR/><BR/>But in every religion you'll find extremist wackos I'm sure.Joanne (True Blue)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17445664997050698154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-50577586650024285142007-12-12T15:48:00.000-05:002007-12-12T15:48:00.000-05:00I hope it's clear, by the way, that when I said "t...<I>I hope it's clear, by the way, that when I said "these men are lower than pigs" I was referring specifically to the murderers in this story - not anyone who is a Muslim.</I><BR/><BR/>That's what I thought, JBG, but thanks for clarifying it.<BR/><BR/>BTW, I meant to say hi to you and I hope things are going well for you too. Long time no hear. So glad you decided to drop by.<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>There are total wastes and inspirations on both sites, and in both parties.</I><BR/><BR/>Absolutely. There are some Liberal blogs that I like better than a few BT sites. But I generally tend to ignore the ones I have a fundamental problem with.Joanne (True Blue)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17445664997050698154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-28536425617586661132007-12-12T15:06:00.000-05:002007-12-12T15:06:00.000-05:00I agree that just as Dan isn't responsible for wha...I agree that just as Dan isn't responsible for what Cherniak says on Liblogs, Joanne does not need to defend Blogging Tories. There are total wastes and inspirations on both sites, and in both parties.Jacques Beau Verthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16450947780950412676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-28829306345733822612007-12-12T15:02:00.000-05:002007-12-12T15:02:00.000-05:00I hope it's clear, by the way, that when I said "t...I hope it's clear, by the way, that when I said "these men are lower than pigs" I was referring specifically to the murderers in this story - not anyone who is a Muslim.<BR/><BR/><I>Why aren't we prying into the affairs of white anglo saxon teenagers and their parents?</I><BR/><BR/>I think we are - though certainly there may be many examples not followed by the media, true. Robert Latimer comes to mind - his actions spurred an important debate about euthanasia. This event will spur an important debate about religion.<BR/><BR/>I believe that if a girl was killed by a Catholic family for having an abortion, there would be an equally shocked and strong reaction. I believe Canadians have little tolerance for religious beliefs condoning murder - especially of one's children.Jacques Beau Verthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16450947780950412676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-88794728348944477502007-12-12T14:05:00.000-05:002007-12-12T14:05:00.000-05:00We are such hypocrites. I respect Jason for his vi...We are such hypocrites. I respect Jason for his views, as I respect all others. <BR/><BR/>Why aren't we prying into the affairs of white anglo saxon teenagers and their parents? Do we know for a fact that home conflicts and abuses don't happen to that group? Of course not. <BR/><BR/>The question of the day, is when do we start demanding that our law makers and government make it clear that no matter who you are in this country, if you kill your kids, or abuse them in any, way shape or form, we'd rather you go somewhere else. <BR/><BR/>Leslie Roberts on CFRB this morning discussed how what's going on is a clear example of how Canada has failed in the multi-cultural department by not better defining what it means to be a Canadian. <BR/><BR/>We have no clue, so folks who choose our country have nothing to go by. We always seem to define being Canadian in someone else's terms.<BR/><BR/>What are we? <BR/>What does being a Canadian really mean?<BR/><BR/>Answer that and THEN we can start playing jr. shrink on families who don't ever acclimate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-79252498375787386722007-12-12T13:57:00.000-05:002007-12-12T13:57:00.000-05:00because we should not ignore the many victims of t...<I>because we should not ignore the many victims of this type of violence who are not Muslims.</I><BR/><BR/>Gayle, <A HREF="http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2005/03/04/bc-atwal20050305.html" REL="nofollow">that's true</A>.Joanne (True Blue)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17445664997050698154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-6333209566980149202007-12-12T13:51:00.000-05:002007-12-12T13:51:00.000-05:00somebody might point out to johnathon that europe ...somebody might point out to johnathon that europe isn't a country.<BR/><BR/> i hate to split hairs...but if dear ol' johnathon wants to share his opinions, he might try getting a few facts straight first. it might help his credibility....not.Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04494569558870782894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-84848757106788271092007-12-12T12:17:00.000-05:002007-12-12T12:17:00.000-05:00JoanneI posted this over at BCL and I think it bea...Joanne<BR/><BR/>I posted this over at BCL and I think it bears repeating here:<BR/><BR/>"I think we should not rush to judgment here. While it may be true this girl was killed because she refused to conform to religious practices, it is also very possible this was about something else altogether.<BR/><BR/>A year ago in Edmonton there was a huge outcry about teen violence when four boys were charged with killing a man on a city bus. The media spoke with an ETS emplyee who reported there was blood everywhere and that the boys engaged in a prolonged beating, including kicking the man in the head. It turned out that the man attacked the boys, and they only hit him a couple of times while he had one of the boys in a choke hold. He died because of a fluke punch, and all charges against the boys, who were clearly acting in self defence, were dropped.<BR/><BR/>So let us not rush to judgment until the facts are in."<BR/><BR/>In my considerable experience dealing with children and youth from abusive homes, this type of violence has no colour or religion. It may be true that some Muslim men do use violence to exert control over the women in their lives, but that is not unique to Islam. I work with people from all races, religions and cultures who experience family violence. <BR/><BR/>So, by all means speak out against family violence, and speak out against using religion and culture to defend family violence. Just do not focus on one religion and one culture while doing so, because we should not ignore the many victims of this type of violence who are not Muslims.Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08112657859825911939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-89942025776145518922007-12-12T11:46:00.000-05:002007-12-12T11:46:00.000-05:00I want to know how many family members where in th...I want to know how many family members where in that home at the time of the attack, what were their ages and what did they do when they heard Aqsa's screams?Joanne (True Blue)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17445664997050698154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-34903992168455286872007-12-12T11:43:00.000-05:002007-12-12T11:43:00.000-05:00I'm not going to defend or attack other Blogging T...I'm not going to defend or attack other Blogging Tory's opinions.<BR/><BR/><I>These men are lower than pigs.</I><BR/><BR/>Jason, that is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. Anyone who kills their own daughter or wife is contemptible, as far as I'm concerned; especially if several male members team up to do the deed. It is the worst form of breach of trust and abuse.<BR/><BR/>I see moderate Muslims like Fatah and Hassan as extremely important in trying to instill some balance in all this.<BR/><BR/>There are certainly other faiths and cultures whose members commit equally reprehensible acts, and their community needs to get their heads out of the sand and take responsibility.Joanne (True Blue)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17445664997050698154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-77652117107055558252007-12-12T11:09:00.000-05:002007-12-12T11:09:00.000-05:00do you share the views of craig smith, co-founder ...do you share the views of craig smith, co-founder of the site that directs all your traffic to your site?<BR/><BR/> in a forum thread found on the main page, smith invites readers to discuss islam. he begins his discussion with a blanket statement:<BR/><BR/> <I>islam sucks.</I><BR/><BR/> complicity. indeed.Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04494569558870782894noreply@blogger.com