tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post1849221640422806331..comments2023-10-19T06:24:41.808-04:00Comments on Joanne's Journey: 'Celebrating' abortionJoanne (True Blue)http://www.blogger.com/profile/17445664997050698154noreply@blogger.comBlogger66125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-522921567784296972008-01-27T21:42:00.000-05:002008-01-27T21:42:00.000-05:00"Anonymous said... wayward son RU-486 is an aborti..."Anonymous said... <BR/>wayward son <BR/>RU-486 is an abortion pill."<BR/><BR/>I know what it is and I approve of it to reduce surgical abortions and to reduce the time, and therefore gestation of the fetus at the time of abortion. It is legal in most european countries, in some cases for as much as 20 years. <BR/><BR/>"Sex education has been happening for a long time, and has got us where we are today"<BR/><BR/>I would hope so. I assume you are referring to the teenage pregnancy rates today which are at least 20% lower than they were 35 years. Yup our sex education has certainly helped us dramatically lower those rates. Of course the abstinence only education in the US has worked wonders, what with their teenage pregnancy rates being DOUBLE ours.<BR/><BR/>In fact teenage pregnancy rates fell from 48.1/1000 in 1992 to 33.9/1000 in 2002. <BR/><BR/>In 1974 the rate of teenage pregnancy pregnancy was 43/1000. That is much higher than it is today.<BR/><BR/>http://www.sexualityandu.ca/parents/puberty-4.aspx<BR/><BR/>http://www.statcan.ca/english/kits/preg/preg3.htm<BR/><BR/>http://www.sexualityandu.ca/teachers/data-6.aspx<BR/><BR/>http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/164/3/395-a<BR/><BR/>http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/reprint/176/11/1601.pdf<BR/><BR/>Yup everything is going to hell in a handbasket.<BR/><BR/>"because it was all about the physical, and nothing about the moral."<BR/><BR/>Parents can teach morals. I would prefer when it comes to sex education that our schools focus on informing and providing evidence.<BR/><BR/>"telling our kids they can't fight it so do it is very insulting."<BR/><BR/>No sex education program tells children that they can't fight it and to "do it." It tells them about their bodies, the risks, and how to protect themselves should they choose to become sexually active. I have never seen any evidence that abstinence only programs delay sexual activity, only that children are less likely to take precautions when they do become sexually active.<BR/><BR/>"We should be teaching better decision making skills and give them the confidence to control their urges."<BR/><BR/>Sexual education DOES teach better decision making skills. The extreme drop in teenage pregnancy rates shows this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-43305921905772762962008-01-27T20:27:00.000-05:002008-01-27T20:27:00.000-05:00Physicians for Life say that a fetus can feel pain...<I>Physicians for Life say that a fetus can feel pain at 20 weeks.</I><BR/><BR/>a) How the heck would they know?<BR/><BR/>b) I can't remember being born, likely a nasty and stressful personal event, having witnessed a few.Möbiushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11851148006420274055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-71281499042458463952008-01-27T20:24:00.000-05:002008-01-27T20:24:00.000-05:00I support capital punishment, but I know it's a le...<I>I support capital punishment, but I know it's a legal nightmare and political death warrant. Nobody can tell me Michael Briere deserves to breath our air.</I><BR/><BR/>The problem with this is that you predispose that the law/government is always correct in its prosecution. It is not, and is afflicted with all of the explicit errors and prejudices of any system.<BR/><BR/>How many innocent people are you willing to kill to get the bad guys? 1 in 10?, 1 in 100?<BR/><BR/>If you're an Ontarian, you may be familiar with the problems of one of our former coroners, allegedly not being quite correct all of the time.Möbiushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11851148006420274055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-62463432628308468372008-01-27T20:18:00.000-05:002008-01-27T20:18:00.000-05:00Theoretically, a Canadian woman can decide up unti...<I>Theoretically, a Canadian woman can decide up until the moment of birth whether or not she wishes to end the life of her child and the taxpayer must fund it, but one minute after birth all that changes and it is suddenly a crime to do so.<BR/><BR/>Why?</I><BR/><BR/>And, again, I ask, how frequently does the "last-minute abortion" occur? Theoretically doesn't cut it.<BR/><BR/>We can dance on the head of a pin all day, and still I haven't an answer to my question.Möbiushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11851148006420274055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-58797957389162734652008-01-27T19:12:00.000-05:002008-01-27T19:12:00.000-05:00Wow, you must be a lousy "hunter."Ah, an attempt a...<I>Wow, you must be a lousy "hunter."</I><BR/><BR/>Ah, an attempt at humour.Joanne (True Blue)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17445664997050698154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-72478203384641269552008-01-27T19:03:00.000-05:002008-01-27T19:03:00.000-05:00wayward son RU-486 is an abortion pill.Sex educat...wayward son <BR/>RU-486 is an abortion pill.<BR/>Sex education has been happening for a long time, and has got us where we are today because it was all about the physical, and nothing about the moral.<BR/>telling our kids they can't fight it so do it is very insulting. We should be teaching better decision making skills and give them the confidence to control their urges.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-30795180490597108452008-01-27T18:35:00.000-05:002008-01-27T18:35:00.000-05:00hunter said... "Now, we have birth control that is...hunter said... <BR/>"Now, we have birth control that is 99.98% effective,"<BR/><BR/>What is this 99.98% effective method of birth control? Considering that male sterilization is only 99.85% effective and female sterilization is 99.5%, then I guess combined male and female sterilization should do the trick. The typical failure rate during first year of use for condoms is 15%. For the pill it is 8%. Even combining those two would therefore be a failure rate of better than 1%.<BR/><BR/>I can't guarentee the accuracy of any of those numbers as they come from wikipedia, but regardless the failure rate is still higher than most people believe. As Joanne says "nothing is foolproof except abstinence." <BR/><BR/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_methods#Effectiveness_of_various_methods<BR/><BR/><BR/>"and even if that fails, young girls can have a baby without being "shunned"."<BR/><BR/>Agreed. We should shun the unlucky and "dumb" young girls. That il learn em.<BR/><BR/>"So I ask the feminists, and tori, why is abortion necessary anymore?"<BR/><BR/>I am not a feminist or a tori, but I suspect that abortion is necessary because of unwanted pregnancies. I would prefer to reduce those unwanted pregancies through better sex education in schools which would reduce the failure rate of birth control methods and through legalization of RU-486 in Canada. However I don't see either of those happening, along with any restrictions of abortion happening in Canada anytime soon no matter which party is in power.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-53445182895424166002008-01-27T18:21:00.000-05:002008-01-27T18:21:00.000-05:00Joanne, Ms. Somerville is, as usual, her no-nonsen...Joanne, Ms. Somerville is, as usual, her no-nonsense-self in that interview.<BR/><BR/>As Hunter mentioned in this thread, there are some pretty effective means of contraception available. <BR/><BR/>Why are women not availing themselves of those means? As that commenter stated, why are some women still living in the 60s? <BR/><BR/>Why do some of them prefer to use abortion as a means of contraception?<BR/>I have cited this example in other threads re: this topic. A well-known Quebec journalist laughed as she off-handedly stated "j'en ai flushé quatre" (I flushed four - [unwanted embryos]). I can understand a first 'mistake', but FOUR!?!<BR/><BR/>Abortion is a personal choice, as is engaging in sexual activity, as is choosing to use some form of contraception or not.<BR/>As such, I am more than willing to have each individual exercise that choice. It is a choice she makes for/by herself, with her conscience, with or without her partner, and she will be the one to answer to her Maker, if she believes in one. <BR/><BR/>However, since it is an individual choice, DON'T ASK ME TO PAY FOR IT with taxpayers' funds under the guise of a necessary medical procedure. It is a form of elective surgery.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-1113829615257912422008-01-27T17:52:00.000-05:002008-01-27T17:52:00.000-05:00SUZANNE said... "And many late-term abortions are ...SUZANNE said... <BR/>"And many late-term abortions are not counted in the stats because they're coded as stillbirths."<BR/><BR/>Any evidence of this? It would go completely against Canada's definition of stillbirth which states: "death prior to the complete expulsion or extraction from its mother of a product of human conception, irrespective of the duration of pregnancy and which is not an induced termination of pregnancy."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-85379247865757911912008-01-27T17:46:00.000-05:002008-01-27T17:46:00.000-05:00hunter said... Well this women has a moral problem...hunter said... <BR/>Well this women has a moral problem with abortion, it's one of the ten commandments, "Thou shalt not kill".<BR/><BR/>Wow, you must be a lousy "hunter."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-5479084737764650072008-01-27T16:18:00.000-05:002008-01-27T16:18:00.000-05:00Gabby, thanks for the tip! I'll check it out.Why i...Gabby, thanks for the tip! I'll check it out.<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>Why is the discussion never about "If you don't want a baby why have sex and get pregnant.?"</I><BR/><BR/>It's amazing isn't it? In this day and age of an abundance of birth control methods and yet some teenagers are so naive.<BR/><BR/>Of course, mistakes do happen and kids need to be reminded that nothing is foolproof except abstinence.Joanne (True Blue)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17445664997050698154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-52033802698806403642008-01-27T16:15:00.000-05:002008-01-27T16:15:00.000-05:00I'm sure people probably wouldn't have an issue wi...<I>I'm sure people probably wouldn't have an issue with that. That would be around 3 months.</I><BR/><BR/>I could live with that, but there would be folks on both sides that couldn't.Joanne (True Blue)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17445664997050698154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-68500686269333603032008-01-27T16:12:00.000-05:002008-01-27T16:12:00.000-05:00Mary T, that was quite a story wasn't it? Raphael ...Mary T, that was quite a story wasn't it? Raphael covered it <A HREF="http://unambig.blogspot.com/2008/01/mothers-heartbreaking-sacrifice.html" REL="nofollow">here.</A>Joanne (True Blue)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17445664997050698154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-42474492989652321962008-01-27T15:41:00.000-05:002008-01-27T15:41:00.000-05:00The discussion gets stuck on 'what stage of develo...The discussion gets stuck on 'what stage of development' can the baby in the embrionic or fetal stage be taken out of the womb.<BR/>Why is the discussion never about "If you don't want a baby why have sex and get pregnant.?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-81887410016012462142008-01-27T13:21:00.000-05:002008-01-27T13:21:00.000-05:00If you want to listen to Margaret Somerville inter...If you want to listen to Margaret Somerville interviewed on this topic, go to: http://www.940news.com/members.php (free registration required). <BR/>Look for Thursday Jan. 24 @ 11:00 a.m. and go to the 8:20 mark. The interview is about 9 min. long.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-69953946402044977762008-01-27T10:51:00.000-05:002008-01-27T10:51:00.000-05:00I've got a proposal. Suppose we determine the rang...I've got a proposal. Suppose we determine the range when an embryo gains sentience, take the minimum of that range, and call it the abortion cut off? I'm sure people probably wouldn't have an issue with that. That would be around 3 months.peter werryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05591716283187012186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-90161845348885372492008-01-27T09:57:00.000-05:002008-01-27T09:57:00.000-05:00I wonder what Judy thinks of the woman in England ...I wonder what Judy thinks of the woman in England who was diagnosed with cancer when she was 4 months pregnant. She refused an abortion to save her life, refused treatment until her child was able to survive and was born 17 wks early. Baby doing fine, mother died a few wks later. She told her husband that if she had to die, she would live thru her child.maryThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10099534478709227356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-4071720260087713822008-01-27T07:32:00.000-05:002008-01-27T07:32:00.000-05:00This from a completely dumb and naivete man about ...<I>This from a completely dumb and naivete man about the issue(and many other aspects of life) prior to her birth..</I><BR/><BR/>Don't sell yourself short, Jckirlan. What you are experiencing is called a 'conscience'. You have experienced the reality of your daughter's existence and it doesn't seem to mesh with what Judy Rebick is trying to make your believe.<BR/><BR/>You are her father. However if your wife chose to abort her at any point in the pregnancy you couldn't do a thing about it. Thankfully that isn't the case in your family.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps someday there will be a way to rid women of their unwanted pregnancies and still somehow allow the embryo/fetus/unborn child to continue to develop.<BR/><BR/>Lawyer Karen Selick calls it the '<A HREF="http://www.nationalpost.com/todays_paper/story.html?id=261407&p=1" REL="nofollow">transoption solution</A>'.Joanne (True Blue)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17445664997050698154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-36212693855311525462008-01-27T07:23:00.000-05:002008-01-27T07:23:00.000-05:00If this is the greatest victory for feminists that...<I>If this is the greatest victory for feminists that is pretty sad. Thats why I call them the death cult.<BR/>Most women who have abofrtions will tell you that this was not triumph for them</I><BR/><BR/>Dr. Roy, I think that was the original intent of this post - that Judy Rebick believes the majority of Canadians have no moral problems with abortion.<BR/><BR/>I think they have plenty of moral problems with it, but choose instead to cower to the militant pro-lifers who have successfully brainwashed them.<BR/><BR/>This is a volatile subject though so I'm asking everyone to try to be respectful of other opinions which may differ from yours. I know it's difficult.Joanne (True Blue)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17445664997050698154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-42872499484193702172008-01-27T03:40:00.000-05:002008-01-27T03:40:00.000-05:00Back in the old days, 60's, young girls had no bir...Back in the old days, 60's, young girls had no birth control, and if they got pregnant, they were "shunned". <BR/><BR/>Now, we have birth control that is 99.98% effective, and even if that fails, young girls can have a baby without being "shunned". So I ask the feminists, and tori, why is abortion necessary anymore? Why do you insist on living in the 60's?hunterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14180857240945765697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-81368424630024405512008-01-26T23:34:00.000-05:002008-01-26T23:34:00.000-05:00"Suppose the issue weren't about an embryo, but an...<I>"Suppose the issue weren't about an embryo, but an adult human being shrunken to size and maliciously implanted into a uterus? Would it be okay to kill that adult?"<BR/><BR/>but a shrunken adult is not comparable to an embryo, clearly. At the very least, an embryo lacks frontal lobes and has a sketchy forbrain at best. This analogy does not work.</I><BR/><BR/>Then the issue isn't really about the woman's body, is it? It's about being given the right to kill one's embryo or fetus. If an equal human being were shrunk and put in a uterus, would we have the right to kill that person?<BR/><BR/>If the issue really were about autonomy, the answer would be: yes.<BR/><BR/>But that's not the issue. The issue is being able to kill the embryo.<BR/><BR/><I>Please define "brain waves".</I><BR/><BR/>Electrical impulses produced by the brain. <BR/><BR/><I>and that is your opinion, and you have a right to it. Just as I have a right to believe that women should have the choice to whether they want to continue with their pg or not.</I><BR/><BR/>You're not confronting the issue. Of course I have a right to my opinion, but you're not addressing what I'm saying.<BR/><BR/><I>And some women may choose to do that, and it's perfectly within their rights, as is terminating the pg. Some women choose to have the baby. Again, within their reproductive rights.</I><BR/><BR/>Here's the point you're not getting: the fact that abortion is done that way shows it's not about the woman's body. It's about the right to kill an embryo to avoid parenting.<BR/><BR/>I'll put the issue to you again: would it be okay if the embryo were a shrunken adult? Most people would say no. So what's the difference? The difference is the status of the fetus, not the woman.<BR/><BR/>That's the real crux of the abortion issue.<BR/><BR/><I>I'm afraid that by saying "Listen, if you're pg, you only have 1 option: carry the pg to term" we would basically wipe out all that hard work that we made to make sure that as women we have CHOICE.</I><BR/><BR/>Well what's the choice? The choice is killing one's offspring in the name of escaping parenting and depriving human beings of their natural rights.<BR/><BR/>Some choice.Suzannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15038275826830875246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-84675130971266761642008-01-26T23:32:00.000-05:002008-01-26T23:32:00.000-05:00I support capital punishment, but I know it's a le...I support capital punishment, but I know it's a legal nightmare and political death warrant. Nobody can tell me Michael Briere deserves to breath our air.Raphael Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14635417096024081504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-71791251057627330112008-01-26T22:00:00.000-05:002008-01-26T22:00:00.000-05:00Sorry, didn't mean to be so aggressive with the de...Sorry, didn't mean to be so aggressive with the defense but after I saw my 6 week old daughter's little heartbeart on ultrasound while inutero, I knew that the "right to choose " was a cunard. This from a completely dumb and naivete man about the issue(and many other aspects of life) prior to her birth..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-15401331834437389482008-01-26T21:30:00.000-05:002008-01-26T21:30:00.000-05:00Al I am saying is a life is a life is a life, and ...<I>Al I am saying is a life is a life is a life, and as much as I would like to hang the Clifford Olsons of the world, that's wrong as well.</I><BR/><BR/>Yeah, good point. Hard to draw a line, that's for sure. And for the record, I'm against capital punishment for that very reason.Joanne (True Blue)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17445664997050698154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20283843.post-77848084855979315942008-01-26T21:25:00.000-05:002008-01-26T21:25:00.000-05:00"...without the care of other family memeber safte..."...without the care of other family memeber safter a stroke was "not viable".<BR/>= without the care of other family members after a stroke...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com